Clear Varnish on tank transfers

[Chris Haynes]

I just spoke with Bruce Linsday, The most knowledgeable person I know and our Club Archivist, about the varnish on tank decals. He told me that the varnish was sparingly applied only to the edges of the decals to keep them from lifting.
He also said that the use of Copal Varnish, part #11622-X for pint can, was switched to Clear Varnish, part # 90602-B for pint can, because the Copal varnish had an orange tint to it.
Bruce Palmer told me he covered the complete transfer with Clear Varnish and it shrank the decal.
Now you know how to correctly apply your tank transfers. ;-)

[exeric]

How can I put this delicately. That's going to look like crap. Modern decals are not even close to the quality of originals. I'm doing the body work on my '48 FL right now and even though the tank doesn't require decals I wouldn't think of messing up the color coat by brushing varnish on the edges of the decal.

I have put patent decals on a panhead oil tank, (sans clear coat) and the decal didn't last the first washing. I guarantee that if you did apply varnish to the edges of a modern decal and wash the bike 2 months later, you're going to blow away every part of the decal that isn't varnished. Of coarse you can be super careful when you do wash your bike, but I regard panheads as riders.

I have the highest regard for your intent Chris, but I don't think your application of original proceedure is practical with the materials available today. If I were doing a '37 EL and had tons of discretionary income I would go to great pains to find genuine decals and apply them according to Hoyle.

As a defense, I would like to hear how you would do the paint on a 1939 EL using the materials available today. In other words, how would a guy do that bike and make you happy. I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ because I do have a lot of respect for your knowledge and intent.

[flthead]

oh boy .....

can't wait to read this reply. i'm with you exeric , been in the body /paint business forever .clear coat will be on my '37 .....ain't technology grand

[Chris Haynes]

Single stage paints are available. You can order your 1905-1976 Harley colors in lacquer or enamel from Antique Cycle Supply.
There is more than one source for decals.
http://www.antiquecyclesupply.com/paint.htm

[AFJ]

How can I put this delicately. That's going to look like crap. Modern decals are not even close to the quality of originals. I'm doing the body work on my '48 FL right now and even though the tank doesn't require decals I wouldn't think of messing up the color coat by brushing varnish on the edges of the decal.

I have put patent decals on a panhead oil tank, (sans clear coat) and the decal didn't last the first washing. I guarantee that if you did apply varnish to the edges of a modern decal and wash the bike 2 months later, you're going to blow away every part of the decal that isn't varnished. Of coarse you can be super careful when you do wash your bike, but I regard panheads as riders.

I have the highest regard for your intent Chris, but I don't think your application of original proceedure is practical with the materials available today. If I were doing a '37 EL and had tons of discretionary income I would go to great pains to find genuine decals and apply them according to Hoyle.

As a defense, I would like to hear how you would do the paint on a 1939 EL using the materials available today. In other words, how would a guy do that bike and make you happy. I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ because I do have a lot of respect for your knowledge and intent.

Are you fellows talking about the old type of "varnish transfers" where the paper was removed and the transfer coated with varnish (or in some types methyl alcohol) in order to stick them to the metal or the newer "waterslide" type where the transfer or "decal" is loosened in a dish of water before sliding it off the paper onto the tank?

AFJ

[bmh]

According to my inquiries last fall, Antique Cycle supply no longer supplied laquers and as far as enamel it is Dupont Chroma line which I believe is a 2 part epoxy. Thats the info I got from them when I ordered paint chips.

[Chris Haynes]

According to my inquiries last fall, Antique Cycle supply no longer supplied laquers and as far as enamel it is Dupont Chroma line which I believe is a 2 part epoxy. Thats the info I got from them when I ordered paint chips.

Their website says the can supply laquer. That is all I know.

[bmh]

Well I spoke to them in person and was informed no more laquer, only Dupont Chroma. I asked about the web site and thier ads in the club mag stating laquer being available and was informed that it was left there on purpose as it got people to call them first since they thought laquer was still available from them. just trying to get a leg up on the competition I suppose. Hey it worked, it got me to call them first and order some chips.

[Chris Haynes]

it got me to call them first and order some chips.

That is a sore spot with me. I would hardly call a drop of paint on a piece of paper a paint chip. Especially at 5 bucks each. :-(

[exeric]

You're right there Chris. I bought paint chips from them on 2 occasions, but about 15 years apart. The chips I recently got are smaller than the old ones and the paint soaked into the paper, not laying on top of the paper like paint would on metal. It's basically worthless and also embarassing when I think that I actually paid money for them. I would have been ashamed to give them away let alone sell them. That's such a pity when I think of how good that company used to be.

[40 Nuck]

I had the same experience with their "chips". I bought several and most had faded and soaked into the paper so much so that you couldn't even get a good idea of the true paint color. My guess is that they don't want you ordering a chip and taking your business elsewhere, but if they aren't going to offer laquer, then their offer to sell a useless chip is kind of deceptive. If you can't match the chip, and they don't sell laquer ... I guess the only avenue is to by a high priced can of the Chroma, and then use that as a match for a laquer product.

[bmh]

Yes I agree, the chips provided were not good enough to make a positive match to a set of factory paint tanks. And that is part of the reason that particular project got put on hold. I have on the other hand seen machines painted with their paint recently and must admit it does look rather nice, as well it should as it appears they charge a premium for dupont product mixed to their formulas for correct colors. I have not bothered to order any chips from Mr. Pierce as I seem to remeber a cost of $10 or $15 each and I believe that he is matching what the factory did as a base and candy type affair with a single component paint. He doesn't list chips on his site but I remember speaking to someone there last fall also. I would like to get back a little closer to topic: Do the patent decals on H-D oil tanks, as done from the factory, have a coat of varnish or clear over them? Because I can't seem to see it, was the whole oil tank clear coated? or are these decals different from the ones used on gas tanks in the 20' and 30's?

[Chris Haynes]

I would like to get back a little closer to topic: Do the patent decals on H-D oil tanks, as done from the factory, have a coat of varnish or clear over them? Because I can't seem to see it, was the whole oil tank clear coated? or are these decals different from the ones used on gas tanks in the 20' and 30's?

If I remember correctly there are five different patent decals. Ken Presson was reproducing all of them at one time. I don't know if he is still in the business or not.
The varnish was only on the decal to prevent it from lifting. It was known as Decal Cement or varnish , part number 11640-X.
Here are the instructions on how to use it.

[bmh]

Must have been some good stuff. I looked at every original oil bag at jefferson this past weekend and couldn't detect that the decal had been coated over with anything. Must be pretty tough too as most of these decals are in remarkably good shape for thier age. I seem to remember an article somewhere showing a guy applying a set of tank decals to an old Indian or Henderson. The process reminded me a lot of doing gold leaf. Clete at Old Dude has repros of all the patent decals. Well thanks Chris for the info and another detail to fret about.

[pete reeves]

Here is an interesting letter dated 1912 it looks like early Harleys had varnish applied over the transfer and the enamel.

I can’t see how the appearance of this would have been much different from clear coat over the transfer and the paint if it was applied sparingly.


Pete Reeves 860