Should everything work on judged bikes?

[Steve Slocombe]

You need to submit the speedo question to the Judging Committee. Remember that speedometers were an accessory before 1936.

The bikes are supposed to be as they left the factory or stood in the show room. The street legal question is another one for the Judging Committee. I cut owners some slack where they have to meet current state laws in order to ride their bikes, so just note stuff like rear reflectors, incorrect period mirrors, frame number tags for state titles on bikes that never had them originally etc.

The bikes not being started point is now five years old, and judges today follow the rules more closely.

Winners Circle bikes have to get their Junior First award with over 90 points, then over 95 points for a Senior, then over 95 points and a final check to get into Winners Circle. They then have to maintain 85+ points each time they are presented for a further Winners Circle award. That's a lot of scuffed paintwork, missing lockwashers and incorrect screws before they have to do anything. I judge 1930s bikes and a 1934 Harley VL has the most Winners Circle awards in the Club with about 70. Over the last 15 years I have spoken to the owner as new information has emerged, and that bike has been thoroughly gone over several times to make sure it is well above the 85 point limit each time. Likewise for the red/black 1936 Harley VH sidecar outfit we see at many meets. These dedicated owners are riding their bikes, keeping them up to scratch, and letting others see what a really good example of the marque looks like.

As I mentioned before, if you have problems with the existing judging rules, or wish to propose new ones, the best way is to become a judge yourself and take up the suggestions with the Chief Judge and the Judging Committee.

[Britluv]

Steve, I AM a judge myself, and have met you at the old Davenport meets. I agree with you that Winners Circle bikes should be kept presentable and also be ridden, as their manufacturers intended them to be. If certain government requirements must be met to make a bike legally rideable on the streets, of course these additions must be made. I fully realize that speedometers were not standard on some early bikes, and that should be known by those judging that "year-class' of bikes.
But, where speedometers WERE standard equipment, they should be proven to wor, if requested by the judges, as should the lights, and the horn.

Again: If "Winners' Circle" bikes are representing a high standard of restoration or represent "original but unrestored" models of a year and make, they should be representative in every way, including function.

Speaking of judging, a few years ago the then-current AMCA National Chief Judge would send out newsletters to the rest of us. Can this idea be revived?

[murph]

If the owner wants the bike judged, he should be asked if the judges can lift the rear of the bike to check if the speedometer works. If he refuses, don't judge the bike, assume he has something to hide.

Look, are these bikes supposed to be street-legal and functional for their time period OR NOT?
It has already been established in the rule requiring every bike to be judged MUST BE STARTED in front of a judge, so this
alone is proof the "Honor System" did not work.



NO, "Winners Circle" bikes SHOULD NOT be given latitude in all areas. This defeats the whole purpose of using them as
correct examples of their make, model and year as reference for other restorers. I thought this was the whole purpose of the classification.
If this permissive attitude is now the AMCA policy, why have any"Winners Circle" bikes at all?

Where do you stop? Why not check the speedometer for accuracy? We should have the judges put a voltmeter on it and make sure it's charging. I'm for the starting and running and some basic things like lights, horn works etc..... But if your going to deduct points or not judge it because his rare never to find again $600 dollar horn doesn't work and it never will, I'm out. I'd rather see the original never to find horn on the guys bike then a repro that works. Some things on these bikes stopped working one week out of the factory. Just my two cents.

[exeric]

One of the main reasons judging has been a part of AMCA meets since the beginning, is to get bikes out their caves. When people go to an AMCA meet, they want to see old motorcycles. There are already many reasons why collectors will not bring their bikes to a meet; I don't think we need to add another obstacle. Actually, I think we need to put our thinking caps on, and come up with incentives to encourage people to bring their rare, and unusual bikes to more meets.

[frichie68]

I RIDE mine and "display" it at Wal-Mart, McD's, gas stations or just a nice country road. It gets "judged" at least 98 points every time. Have yet to find a critical judge (except me). It will never be "correct" and I don't lose any sleep over that. Pain in the butt getting stopped all the time for folks to do photo-ops.