Parkerizing my parts on the 1960 FLHF build

[Saddletramp]

So, I have been Parkerizing many parts on my build. Some have turned out very dark and some have turned out a charcoal gray .The process is somewhat labor intensive, but the results are so cool. I'll post pics if anyone is interested.
James.

[JoJo357]

I'd be interested in seeing your parkerizing labor intensive pictures James.

*M.A.D.*

[chuckthebeatertruck]

Some have turned out very dark and some have turned out a charcoal gray .
James.

Generally, this signifies different carbon content in the steels.

a lot of hardware was 1040, it goes charcoal.

treat sat 4140 the same way and it will come out more grey,

this assumes everything is otherwise the same about your prep, bath, and after bath oiling.

a trick is to give those grey bits a good surface roughing with 120 grit oxide in the blast cabinet and reparkerize. I found that usually gave me enough surface area to get enough reaction going to make the parts more uniform.

done right, parkerizing holds up for decades with almost no fuss. See a brown spot, rub a little oil in and you’re golden.

[duffeycycles]

Did you drop them in hot oil after you parkerized?

[sw48]

After parkerizing (phosphate coating) the parts should be treated with a preservative oil such as that conforming to military specification MIL-L-3150 to prevent rusting.

[Saddletramp]

I'm working on the pics of my last batch. I wanted to take pics of my setup, but now I have a weather delay since I am doing the process outdoors.

Basically my process is as follows:

All parts are bead blasted and then cleaned/degreased (currently using Acetone) again after blasting, then in hot water for a few minutes before going directly into the park solution at 175-185 degrees for 15-20 minutes.

Another hot water bath after park treatment and then hit with WD40 and then dried and soaked in 60 weight oil overnight. I figured that HD had plenty of that 60W around and may have used it,
although I read in a previous post someone surmised that Harley used ATF as their after-oiling at some point.

[Saddletramp]

Here are some parts from my first attempt as well as some of the next batch. Trans mount is definitely lighter than some of the other items.

[chuckthebeatertruck]

Harley DID NOT parkerize like home stuff.

Commercial parkerization is a bit more “intense.”

The oil used is very little of the color difference.

The coating reacts with surface carbon.

[Saddletramp]

Yes Chuck,

Thanks for the response.

I understand that Harley parkerized at extremely high heat and I'm sure the rest of their process was vastly more intense and superior to "home stuff".

There are lots of theories surrounding the commercial processes and speculating on the control of color/shade and affecting the outcome.

I would think the type of oil/preservative used would merely contribute to the effectiveness of the coating. That was why I mentioned it.

James

PS: I should add that as you mentioned previously, metallurgy has the greatest impact on the whole outcome of the parkerizing process. I am finding through trial and error that some pieces also need more surface prep than I can do at the present time.

I attempted to process a rear brake pedal that wouldn't take the treatment at all and I have concluded it may have been previously chromed and what I thought was bare metal may in fact be nickel or something else that my low pressure, low grit glass bead could not remove.

rear brake pedal park failure.jpg I have my local stripping and powder coating guy blasting a couple of other parts I had chromed back in the day. I'm hoping he has more success. I really don't want to get into chemical chrome removal and I don't have the provisions for heat removal.

[otis71]

I was schooled to use a lighter motor oil (20 or 30 weight) that has been warmed and probably not atf or wd-40. I’ve also found that if you rinse after blasting, the part immediately gets flash rust which isn’t helpful. Rinsing after the process shouldn’t be a problem as long as the part stays hot. Ideally you want a warm part to go in warm oil and not rinsing has ever caused me a problem. Also a part that has been previously plated can be a crapshoot whether it’ll parkerize evenly. I guess the plating sometimes gets into the pores and affects the process. Overall I’ve had good success with my suggestions.

[Saddletramp]

Otis,

I used a very hot water rinse to heat and to remove the traces of the acetone degreasing wipe and to heat the parts before they go directly into the park solution. I could heat the parts another way to finish evaporating the degreasing wipe and forego the water. I will probably try that going forward. And yes, it did hurt my doo dads a little to take freshly blasted parts and dunk 'em in water.

The after park heated bath was intended to stop the park process and then WD to displace the last bit of water that might linger. I originally wanted the oil bath to be heated but wasn't able to do that, so I may rethink that also. It's still early in my game so I appreciate all of the suggestions.

James

[chuckthebeatertruck]

We keep focusing on the "oil" as changing something.

But, the color of your part is determined by the chemical composition of the bath (and we have NO idea what bath is used here, in what concentration, etc) and the chemical composition of the ferrous metal. The color of the part is set in the bath -- not by the oil used to protect the part after it has been treated.

So, what does that mean?

It means Harley used what is best described as a "dry" technique similar to brushable nickle vs nickle bath plating. This allowed HD to use pakerization as an early form of galvanization on almost EVERYTHING. Floor boards, frames, mudguards and fuel tanks were all pakerized prior to priming and painting. The parking really opens the pores of the steel and paints stick like crazy.

But, if HD oiled ANY of those parts -- they'd never get the oil out for painting.

Instead, when you look close at pictures of the HD painting floor - you see really mottled parts on the racks - not nice shiny oiled parts. That mottling is the dry parkerization and it leaves the metal looking very different from our home parking.

If you ever want to cut through the internet chatter -- there's a simple test you can do to learn this yourself. Simply go down to the hardware store and buy 5 identical regular old grade 5 zinc bolts from the hardware store. These will be 1040 steel or the equivalent - rolled threads and bin plated. Then, prepare five different oil baths. Try clean oil, cooking oil, dirty oil, 20 wt - diesel oil that looks like tar. Then, strip the bolts for 60 seconds in 20% HCL acid. Hot water rinse and toss them at the same time in the park solution -- wait 15 minutes and drop each one in a different oil bath.

Bet you learn something you didn't expect . . . and I bet the parts look eerily similar despite the differences in oil used.

And, if you find you're more green or grey than black . . . you can adjust the acidity of the bath. I found a slightly more acidic bath with the solution I use created more soft greys vs. hard greys on the SAME 1040 steels. A buddy using the same solution had the opposite.

We have a lot of variables with home parking - from temperature to water to acidity to the percentage of manganese. Unless we all use the exact same solution under the exact same conditions -- one person's success will be another's "eh" with the outcome.

And, yes, that brake lever was plated. It needs full on mechanical removal of the coating or electrolysis. Dunking that in an acid bath will eat the steel as fast as the nickle. God help you if copper is stuck in the grain. You'll always get a splotchy finish.

[Saddletramp]

Chuck,

I get what you're saying and I like the color(s) or shades of my finished project. I'm not worrying about the difference in finishes. Either from my different parts or other peoples finishes..
I'm not worried about the oil either. I'm just focused on the best park treatment and preserving that as well as I can. I thought about parking a couple of parts to be painted after as a test. And I certainly wouldn't oil them. Rather go directly to paint.

That's interesting what you found about the acidity. I might do a test on my solution just for kicks. Maybe between batches to see if it changes with use. Good input. Thanks.

You want to go crazy? Go over to the gun forums or watch some of the gun tubers talking about how to achieve the green tinted park like on the M1 Garands or other historical firearms. Lots of conspiracy theories there.

I decided to do home park mostly from necessity. Both for my old bike projects and a couple of gun parts I will be doing.

Oh, and I gave up on that brake lever. I have my original one and a spare as well.

James