Color Archive

[exeric]

Now I ask you; who doesn't want a modern color match for an old H-D, Indian, Ex/Hen, or even a Honda?

Every human eyeball sees color, but can we all agree on the infinite shades, and hues of color? In general. . . I believe humans do see the subtleties of color the same so perhaps we (as a history club) can document currently available color formulas from contemporary paint manufacturers. John Pierce was that last person to offer colors that he spent considerable time and money on to verify, and supply. No one else has stepped up to the plate to provide that service in spite of the army of experts that know the exact Harley-Davidson Gray, H-D Olive Green, or Indian Red. I suggest we have a place for people to offer color formulas, and suppliers that they believe can provided reliable matches for original colors. I know color can be as fickle as an adolescent love affair but where are we now? I think a color knowledge archive could be very useful and could be fine-tuned with time and respectful input.

[dukekleman]

I agree Eric.

[duffeycycles]

We don't see the same colors. When I was young art teachers told me that I had an eye for color like very few had. I no longer see like that. Machines do a better job but you need fresh original paint on the same background to produce a standard. Pierce did that & also looked at areas on original paint parts that wouldn't get sun. What happened to his standards? On a side note, a friend used my NOS WLA wheel I had gotten from Sarafan to create the paint for his WLA. I also had lots of NOS green parts that were about the same color & flatness. It took 5 tries by a great painter to match it, At Davenport the chief judge, Bob Saar, did not like the paint on the 5 machines that were judged. He didn't ding them but, he had my friend roll up his WLA for them to compare. [Yes there were several different WLA greens used in WWII & later WLAs]

[wallaman]

I agree it would nice to have a "reference library" for original factory paint colors/formulas and companies that can supply them. Not many sources left out there these days. But as for everyone seeing the "same colors", have you ever had cataract surgery? One of the first things you'll notice is all the years you thought you saw white, you were actually seeing a yellowish/brownish version of the color. They typically do one eye at a time so after the first one, you see a whole different color pallet out of the "new" eye versus the old one... Makes me wonder what the original 1936 Croydon Cream really looked like!

[exeric]

I have had computer matches done 5 times and they are never right. Just recently I had Excelsior/Henderson olive green matched to a 6"x6" surface of an excellent old Centari sample that was the best match to genuine I have seen (for what that is worth). This recent match was done by a young guy at PPG who got in the ballpark with the computer, and then used his skill to get it very close. However, I still had to modify his formula with yellow, red, and black. When you can put a new mixed color next to the same original color you can immediately see the difference in light, dark, coolness, warmth or viewed in the sun, or under artificial light. From there you can modify to get the best match. All of this depends on a sample that you trust, or if you're matching to existing paint.

When I suggested a color archive, I know it will be impossible to get true accuracy to original paint. I don't believe any factory could guarantee a color match (except black) to any original factory color due to countless un-controlled factors such as; bulk mixing, age, sunlight, humidity, paint thickness, primer color, pigments sourced from different countries, and the quality of compounding and solvents. All of that is way beyond my knowledge and must keep chemists at all the paint companies awake at night.

My suggestion is to get an archive of color formulas that are about 90% close. . . 100% would be great, but 100% of something no one will ever agree on is the general reality. So, Ya' gotta' start somewhere in lieu of having no where to go now.

[PaulCDF]

If one were to get the opportunity to tour a motorcycle museum, it would be interesting to see how this is done.

[Rodger Brandstatter]

I took a semester of Auto Body and Painting classes back in the late 80s and the main training manual said that the best light for matching any color is outdoors with a moderately overcast northern sky and I think this is true.

[ammorest]

That's correct, Roger. Look at a painted part under a flourescent light then take it outside and it's noticeably different. When I have paint matched at the paint store first I have them take a "picture" of my sample with the computer camera to come up with something close then mixed and tinted for a match. Then I take a sample of that mix outside and compare it to my sample. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it right.
There are many variables in matching paint: the condition of your sample, is it faded, is it actual original paint, etc. Another method of obtaining a sample is to find a can of original paint, preferably unopened, thoroughly mix it up and spray some on a piece of metal big enough for the computer camera. Let it sit for several days to fully dry.
Color matching is not an exact science, We just have to do the best we can.
Dave

[joe fxs fxr]

Watching one of those car build shows, they talk about using a 'sun lamp' to check their work. I suspect there may be modern LEDs that replicate actual sunlight?

[Rubone]

I took a semester of Auto Body and Painting classes back in the late 80s and the main training manual said that the best light for matching any color is outdoors with a moderately overcast northern sky and I think this is true.

I've built several artists studios in my area over the years. Always North to slightly Northeast facing with high windows for indirect light (flat light) for true color representation. The best photographs are generally taken in flat light as well. It makes sense that paint matching prefers the same type of light.