Color of Base Coat/Undercoat for Metallic Congo Green

[clanky]

Hello.....Can anyone tell me the base coat or undercoat color for metallic congo green? I was thinking it was oxide red, although I don't know that for certain, so was hoping one you guys might have used that color and would know the correct color. Thanks much for any help.

[T. Cotten]

I never got an answer, Clanky,...

When I asked upon what kind of paper I should apply Congo Green samples for scanning.

So good luck!

....Cotten

[exeric]

I just made a reply to your question on a previous post, Tom. Sorry for the delay. In regard to Clanky's question; I assumed H-D used a 'Bonderize' process under their paint for production painting, and red oxide primer for replacement fenders.

[clanky]

Hey Cotten....I don't know, that is why I was asking about the color of the base coat. I would think the final color coat would look different having white under it as opposed to red oxide or another color, so a scan would be different as well.

[clanky]

exeric....when you say "Bonderize", like a skim coat? Must be a light color then. Since the metallic congo green is dark, it may not be that big of an issue. I've read here on the forum about other guys painting and not being happy with the results because of the base coat color, trying to avoid that.

[Rubone]

H-D phosphate coating.jpg H-D phosphate coating 2.jpg

[clanky]

From what I've read, they used iron and zinc phosphate to prep the metal for paint, would one assume the metal ended up a gray color under the paint?

[exeric]

Under 'Parkerizing' in the document Robbie posted, it says: "All Bonderized parts and some of the Parkerized parts are given a prime coat of paint". I interpret that as ALL Bonderized fenders, and probably Parkerized gas tanks were primed before color paint (?) If so, what color of primer? . . . Regardless, Harley-Davidson paint work was first class and near impossible to replicate today because the fenders, and tanks were freshly stamped, properly welded, and riveted in fixtures, no rust pits, dents, or repairs, and no fillers.

[T. Cotten]

Under 'Parkerizing' in the document Robbie posted, it says: "All Bonderized parts and some of the Parkerized parts are given a prime coat of paint". I interpret that as ALL Bonderized fenders, and probably Parkerized gas tanks were primed before color paint (?) If so, what color of primer? . . . Regardless, Harley-Davidson paint work was first class and near impossible to replicate today because the fenders, and tanks were freshly stamped, properly welded, and riveted in fixtures, no rust pits, dents, or repairs, and no fillers.

From my observations, Eric,...

The chem treatments on such as footboards, cylinders, inside of fuel tanks, etc. was the primer.

....Cotten

[exeric]

That's been my observations as well, Tom. I recently had a pair of 1949 BT tanks that had been knocked around, but still in very thin original paint Burgundy. I didn't see any sign of a primer under the paint but assumed they were standard Bonderized production finish. I know this paint topic has been discussed forever, but it's still interesting. The picture is a detail of an O.P. 1951 OHV and shows how thin the paint is, and a hint of what is under the paint.

DSC_9781_zpscqxmikap.jpg

[T. Cotten]

...I recently had a pair of 1949 BT tanks that had been knocked around, but still in very thin original paint Burgundy....

Did you notice, Eric,..

How closely the harley Burgundy matched Indian Red?

....Cotten
PS: I've a half-finished "Burgundy" (#10 off-the-line: 1009) that somebody needs more than me.

[clanky]

You guys are awesome, I bet you can figure most anything out. I can buy zinc phosphate in a spray can or pour jug, so going to treat my sheet metal that way, of course I can't replicate the factory, but at least it would be a similar undercoating.
User architect wrote that when he painted his bike blue, he tried white undercoat and said he ended up using silver to bring out the correct color, probably because the silver undercoat was a closer match to the zinc phosphate treated metal.
Thanks much for the help.

[exeric]

I'm enjoying this topic, Karl and glad you started it. I do all of my own prep, and painting but I don't know a fraction of what a contemporary professional automotive painter has to know these days. In other words, I waste a lot of time in prep, and just as much time rubbing, cutting, and polishing the finished, cured paint because I'm an armature. Obviously, a seasoned professional, with modern equipment, and a spray booth can-do high-quality work, more efficiently, and faster. I don't like 'orange peel' so I work to rub that out, but you can see in the pic I posted that H-D did have orange peel just like every production painted vehicle has today. The huge difference with H-D paint quality is how thin, and opaque it was and how difficult that is to replicate today. Notice how defined the rivets are and not treading in a sea of surrounding paint, which is so common with many modern base coat/clear coat paint jobs. I have heard that Glasurit paint has the opaque qualities of H-D enamel but I've never used it, and I know it is quite expensive. Curious what experienced painters have to say on this topic.

[clanky]

Eric, there are no good questions without great answers, thanks to you guys.
Thanks to Cotten, for sending me a paint sample, bingo, I have a match with my local auto paint computer scanner for the elusive metallic congo green. I was afraid the metallic may have settled into the gooey abyss at the bottom of the tin, but the scan picked it up in the sample, thanks again, Cotten. The swatch the computer produced looks identical.

[T. Cotten]

Eric, there are no good questions without great answers, thanks to you guys.
Thanks to Cotten, for sending me a paint sample, bingo, I have a match with my local auto paint computer scanner for the elusive metallic congo green. I was afraid the metallic may have settled into the gooey abyss at the bottom of the tin, but the scan picked it up in the sample, thanks again, Cotten. The swatch the computer produced looks identical.

I stirred it quite thoroughly, Clanky,..

There was no metallic residue at the bottom;

It is a clear finish like the "hi-fi" colors, so any metallic sheen would depend upon an undercoat, and the number of overcoats.

I hate paint.

....Cotten