Olive Green

[TechNoir]

Steve,

Thanks for the comments. I too would prefer a standard RAL or BS code for paint but I have tried every one and none are close enough (for me at least) to my paint. I have two areas of very good original 1920 paint , one on the back of my 1920 tanks and the other on the inside half of the primary case. I have used these areas of original paint to match my paint exactly after spending weeks trying to match to standard colours or to paint chips from various paint manufacturers. In the end I had a custom batch mixed by Regional Paints in Leeds.

It is my belief that the paint used by all car and bike manufacturers in days gone by varied a bit from batch to batch and also year to year. You might not notice between two bikes built in the same month but if you took two made a couple of years apart I would not be surprised if they varied in shade slightly. Hence my comments about my paint being correct for my bike and year but couldn't comment on others.

A while ago you were very generous in sharing a sample of the Seaweed colour with me that is a great match for your original paint sample. However when compared to my 1920 paint it is quite far off which shows that even though the colour was called the same, Olive Green, over the course of 10 years or so has varied in shade quite a lot. See the picture below showing the Seaweed sample on top of my inner primary. The area immediately around the primary has been cleaned to reveal the original colour.



I think that the enamel finish can be reproduced but not so easily for most people. The Copal varnish is not so easy for most either, I have looked into it and most Copal varnishes available are mixtures of copal and other things. You can get copal from artists suppliers but it is a crazy price. The cost effective way, if I were to do it, would be to buy the raw copal and make it myself but it is dangerous as you have to dissolve the copal resin in mineral spirits all while heating it over a stove to reasonably high temperatures.

Like you say its hard to duplicate the original finish and for almost all people its not worth it as there are so many other alternatives.

John

[Steve Swan]

John, i don't know if my local paint man could be of help to you, but he matched perfectly the Olive from my Dad's can of factory paint.

Dad's Olive Green.1.JPGOlive Green Formula.jpgOlive Green Chip 002.jpg

[TechNoir]

John, i don't know if my local paint man could be of help to you, but he matched perfectly the Olive from my Dad's can of factory paint.

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Hi Steve,

Thanks for the information, the paint mix in your second image will be of great help to many looking for a match for their 1920's bike and (as has been commented before) having a pot of original paint is an amazing resource to have access to for colour matching.

When I get home later I will put up a picture of the paint that i had mixed up compared against the original to compare with yours.

I dont actually need any paint, I have some that is a great match to my 1920 original. My last post was to comment on my theory that colours varied slightly over the course of time even though they might be called the same colour. This is highlighted by the variance between 1920 paint and the early 30's paint that Streve Slocombe is using.

John

[Steve Swan]

hi John, Re: your comment "My last post was to comment on my theory that colours varied slightly over the course of time even though they might be called the same colour." fwiw, certainly in the case of the Honda CB750 sandcast, the Candy Tone Blue-Green changed in hue over a period of barely a year. Parts the factory used on the assembly line in 1969 and parts the factory produced a year later were visibly different and still described as the same thing.

[TechNoir]

When I get home later I will put up a picture of the paint that i had mixed up compared against the original to compare with yours.

Hi Steve and others, I had a look for the picture and also found a few others so here they are.

First the colour I had mixed and the part I matched it to. Also, I had noticed that the previous owner from 1988 had been checking out paint samples and had painted samples of colours on the back of one of the tanks on the original paint so once I was happy with my mix I added a smallpatch to see what it looked like, it is a much better match to the naked eye.

First picture is of my original paint chaincase. I had cleaned two patches to get to the original colour



Then the back of the tank with the samples on it.



Next the MIPA paint colours. I had two batches mixed up and despite the paint chip being a much better match the actual paint wasnt close enough so I went with the bespoke mix.





Finaly the colour that Steve Slocombe has matched to an early 30's version of Olive Green is, according to Steve, called Seaweed and is an old ICI colour code 10C39/P420-0857.

This colour is now part of the BS 4800 : 2011 colour range and is code 10-C-39. For some reason it has four names: Seaweed, Dark Olive, Saluki and Riverbed. Here is a comparison of that colour against 1920 original paint. I had found this colour before I contacted Steve reggarding his sample because I initially thought that Steve's Seaweed colour must be a different colour but in fact it is the same.

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I am hoping that this information is of assistance to someone in the future and of interest to a few of the paint nerds on here.



John

[exeric]

John, I have never seen an inner primary, or inside front chain guard for an early J Harley. I don't dispute the authenticity of the color, but I have to believe the guard was custom made. I also can't dispute the need for such a cover as it can get very messy in that area; hence the survival of so many outside front chain guards.

[TechNoir]

John, I have never seen an inner primary, or inside front chain guard for an early J Harley. I don't dispute the authenticity of the color, but I have to believe the guard was custom made. I also can't dispute the need for such a cover as it can get very messy in that area; hence the survival of so many outside front chain guards.

Eric, I have a few small areas of original paint on my bike such as some parts of the toolbox, some other areas that were covered by brackets and of course the inside of the tanks so I do know that the colour of the inner chainguard is correct.

I have learned something new because I assumed that all early J's had the inside part to the primary chain guard. I am pretty sure it isn't a custom part because it is stamped and is a perfect fit. It looks like a factory part. Also, the 1920 parts list states that there is a part called a "front chain guard inside plate" so I have to believe that my part is an original factory item. However the book implies that this part started in 1920 as it isn't listed for earlier years, just 20 & 21 (my book only goes up to 1921.).



John

[exeric]

Never too young to learn something new. So that inside plate must have started in 1920 as I haven't seen such a plate in earlier parts books. Thanks for that information, John. As I said, it was a very good idea and H-D should have done that on all their early chain drive models. In regards to matching paint; it is best to have a talented paint matcher get it right. I have found that paint numbers are only close, but rarely spot on. Also, you have to believe that H-D, Triumph, Indian, etc. bought their paint by the barrel, so it was no doubt mixed by weight. That means some guy was looking at a needle on a scale, on a Monday morning, and saying "Aww Hell, that's close enough"

[tc47]

I know this thread is a couple years old, however I have a question: Is the Olive Green being talked about the same Olive Green used as an export color for 1947 Knuckleheads?
I found a 1947 FL that was in a pretty bad accident in 1975 and I'm trying to bring it back to life. Thanks