Olive Green

[TechNoir]

Hello,

Here is yet another thread about the colour for a Harley Davidson J or F model.

As some of you know I have a 1920F and I got some paint last year mixed that should have been a good match but I was unhappy with the result, the shade was not quite right compared to the 2 good samples of original paint that I have.

I did look at the paint recommended by Steve Slocombe which was "Seaweed" - ICI paint code 10C39/P420-0857. This colour was not a match to my bike, I am sure Steve has matched it to another bike for another year but its not a good match for my 20F.

So earlier today I went to a different local paint store who stock MIPA paints. MIPA are a German company and are the biggest automotive paint supplier here in the UK and possibly Europe. I also believe that MIPA is available further afield in the USA, Australia and New Zealand.

There were thousands of MIPA paint chips to go through and after about 10 minutes we found 2 shades that are a good match. They are:

O-8-0020-3

and

O-8-0020-4

(note the first figure is a letter O not a number zero)

If you look at the picture they are the bottom two on the strip of paint chips.




The chips were very glossy and my original paint was not glossy and the match depended on which part of my original paint that I compared it to but after a few minutes of deliberation both me and the guy in the paint shop decided O-8-0020-4 was a great match to my paint. However the difference between either of these 2 shades is so small that I believe that it wouldn't matter which one was used. However I have gone with O-8-0020-4. (note that the picture does not capture how close these 2 shades are to each other because that are glossy and at different angles to the camera and also under artificial light)

So for reference for others out there doing these bikes I would recommend that either of these 2 shades is good for a 20F although I think that the one ending in 4 is the best but it is so marginal that I don’t think it matters.

I will do a paint chip this weekend and post some more pictures of this colour and also Seaweed compared to my original paint.

John

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear John, my Seaweed was matched to an original paint Olive Green/Black 1934 VL export tank about 25 years ago. I still have about a pint left in the bottom of the can, and am happy to send out samples to AMCA members for the cost of the postage.

[TechNoir]

Dear John, my Seaweed was matched to an original paint Olive Green/Black 1934 VL export tank about 25 years ago. I still have about a pint left in the bottom of the can, and am happy to send out samples to AMCA members for the cost of the postage.

Hi Steve, thanks for the reply and yes I would like a sample of the paint if that is possible. You have my email so drop me line on how you want me to pay.

The seaweed that I have seen is not the right colour compared to my bike. It would be interesting to see if the 1934 VL Olive Green is the same as the 1920J Olive Green or if over the intervening 14 years the colour had varied. I have some good pieces of original 1920 paint to compare it against.

John

[Diboblo]

Just a thought here, but I work with Federal Standard colors, all day. You might consider ordering a Federal Standard color chip book, or color chip set, from the U.S. Government. They have a nice selection of greens in Gloss, Semi Gloss and Flat, that may fit the bill.

Do a search, online, for Fed. Std. 595 Color Book, or Fed. Std. 595 Chip Set. Sounds crazy, but in 1920, there may have been a standardized color set, for manufacturers, and who better to set that standard than the USG?

Just my two cents, but I hope it helps.

Regards,
Bob Vega
AMCA 30550

[TechNoir]

Hi Bob, thanks for the suggestion, it is certainly food for thought.

The problem is that the cheapest chip set is $135 and I am guessing that shipping to the UK plus import taxes will add another $100 and that’s with no guarantee that I will find a match

However, I am in the USA in August so if I can find a paint supplier with a set of chips I might visit them and see if there is something that matches.

John

[Diboblo]

Check out: http://www.fed-std-595.com/FS-595-Paint-Spec.html

They have a pretty nice 595 color chart. Of course, monitor calibration is an issue, but you might find something close and be able to just purchase that chip.

Hope this helps.

Bob Vega
AMCA 30550

Hi Bob, thanks for the suggestion, it is certainly food for thought.

The problem is that the cheapest chip set is $135 and I am guessing that shipping to the UK plus import taxes will add another $100 and that’s with no guarantee that I will find a match

However, I am in the USA in August so if I can find a paint supplier with a set of chips I might visit them and see if there is something that matches.

John

[TechNoir]

Check out: http://www.fed-std-595.com/FS-595-Paint-Spec.html

They have a pretty nice 595 color chart. Of course, monitor calibration is an issue, but you might find something close and be able to just purchase that chip.

Hope this helps.

Bob Vega
AMCA 30550

Bob,

I did see the online charts and there are certainly a few possible suspects. However I also know that the colours displayed by a monitor are not usually the ones that you will see in the actual paint.

A single chip is $35 which also makes it a gamble because I would have to order several (I estimate a minimum of 6 to 10 chips that are similar colours). Also for my purposes I dont need to match to the Federal Standards although it would be nice for others to know if there is a Federal Standard paint that matches.

John

[JaapV]

Hello from Spain. the MIPA_code O-8-0020-4 is also correct color for model F from 1922?thanks

[TechNoir]

Hello from Spain. the MIPA_code O-8-0020-4 is also correct color for model F from 1922?thanks

Hello JaapV, thanks very much for that information. I ended up using a costom mixed colour to match my old paint but the next time I need some I will check out this MIPA colour.

John

[exeric]

Hello John. Just curious about automotive painting in England. Are you using a single stage acrylic enamel, or base coat/clear coat? I've always been a proponent of single stage with a hardening additive. However, I know that your 1920 J is very nice the way it is so I gather you're just looking for touch-up paint.

[TechNoir]

Hi Eric, I hope you are well. I would imagine that automotive paint in england follows a similar path to the USA. A few years ago Two Stage isocyanate type paint was in vogue but it is being phased out in favour of water based products. However these comments refer mainly to modern vehicles.

The old bike fraternity seem to go for either single stage acrylic enamel or base/clear and it seems that the choice is down to personal preference. A few years ago I think a lot of people went for two stage paint thinking it was more durable. I certainly did with my Triumph but I have found that it chips easily. Also, due to the toxic nature, you either need an air fed mask and full body suit or farm it out to a pro. Possibly this second issue is more of an issue for the amateur.

So I am afraid there is no definitive answer but I would tend to go for a more authentic finish rather than the most modern paint system on an old bike.

Regarding the 20F. I had some cellulose paint (lacquer paint in the USA) mixed up. This type of paint is getting more restricted these days due to environmental issues but you can still get it easily if you go to the right supplier. The reason I had the paint mixed was because you may remember that I had to repair one of my tanks which also included stripping it of the horrible burgundy colour paint that was on it. I obviously didn't want to leave it in bare metal so I have painted it. i now need to age it to make it blend in a bit more. I will do an update when I eventually get to it.

Sorry it wasn't a simple and straightforward answer.

John

[Peter Cooke]

Hello JaapV, thanks very much for that information. I ended up using a costom mixed colour to match my old paint but the next time I need some I will check out this MIPA colour.

John

John,
I'll happily stand corrected but I think JaapV may have been asking the question, not providing the info.

[exeric]

John, I've wondered about the future of early motorcycle paint duplication. I've also been curious about water based paints, and would love to see that become a viable alternative to toxic traditional paint. It's nice to have a bike that has some "originality" left, and that should be preserved. Unfortunately, many bikes and cars have been conserved beyond salvation, and restoration is the only salvation for them. Personally, I love a well restored bike, and admire the effort, and work, and care that goes into getting it right. This is a contentious subject, and I don't want this to turn into a soap box for a certain person who has turned preservation into a religion. We humans have been the worst virus that has ever existed on this earth, so I guess it doesn't matter what we do; we'll still mess our own nests

[TechNoir]

John,
I'll happily stand corrected but I think JaapV may have been asking the question, not providing the info.

Thanks for that Peter, I missed the question mark.

I will respond to the question in 2 parts.

First, I cannot comment on the differences between 1920 colours and 1922 colours. Someone else on here may be able to help with that question.

Second, since getting the MIPA colour mixed I ended up not being happy with the end result, it seemed correct on the colout chip but the mixed paint wasnt quite right. It was close but not close enough. So I had some more mixed as a custom colour to match a piece of original paint.

If you need a sample of my paint then drop me a PM and I will happily send you a sample although it will be with the disclaimer that it is a match for my 1920 original paint but I cant comment for other years or other people bikes.

John

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear John, in England the German RAL codes are the ones most used by my painter. I would say they have a fairly wide gap between shades, but I have been able to match most of my old original paint samples to RAL codes. I am still using my old Seaweed paint from 25 years ago as the best match for Olive Green. It was also used as Glossy Olive Drab on my 1935 military VL, so could be the colour that goes right back to 1917/18. Don't forget Brewster Green was the standard Harley colour for a couple of years in the early 1920s, and that original paint will mellow over time to a different shade. The original Harley finish was enamel paint with Copal varnish on top, hard to duplicate today.