Paint of the 30's

[stan]

What paint is most correct for frame paint, and sheet metal to match the paint of my 36 Indian. I don't want to use a clear coat, as this is not period correct, even though it sure shines. What's your opinion? Thanks, Stan

[exeric]

Obviously duPont paint would be the most correct however, what they used in the 30s is no longer available. I was just looking in my 1940 and earlier parts books and it says: "STATE COLOR WHEN ORDERING ENAMELED PARTS". So, I would have to believe they used enamel and not lacquer (even though duPont was famous for their fast drying lacquer). One of the problems with modern paint is, to get good coverage, you end up with a thick build-up of paint. If you look at original paint bikes you will see the paint is very thin. I believe the reason for this is, there was a much higher pigment content in paint from that time, hence, they could put it on much thinner with full opacity. I think Glasurit is a high pigment paint, but I've never used it so I don't know how it behaves. I know it is very high quality, but also very, very expensive. As for the clear coat, that is your decision. I have a good friend that painted his '35 Chief and did not use a clear coat over-all. He did put clear over the decal and I think over the pin stripes. I remember Toney Watson had a near perfect original paint '36 tank and you could see the edges of a clear varnish that was brushed over the decal and stripes.

[Chris Haynes]

By shopping for paint at an Industrial Paint Supply you can find single stage paint, which is usually not available from Automotive Paint Stores.

[exeric]

Single stage paint is generally regarded as a glossy paint that doesn't need a clear coat. I use a single stage enamel from duPont and use a wet look hardener for added durability. The hardener is optional, and it is not a catlyst. 2 stage paint is generally considered a base coat, clear coat system. Beyond that you can use catlyzed paints that are very hard, and durable. I use single stage because early bikes were single stage, but also because many of the chassis parts are the same color as the tank, and fenders. With single stage you get a glossy finish without using a clear coat. I think the big advantage to modern single stage acrylic enamels is the fast drying time, and remarkable durability.

[sirhrmechanic]

An outstanding single stage paint (not clear-coat) but which is still a catalyzed enamel is DuPont Chroma Premiere. Just below this is Chroma One.

By way of contrast, their clear-coat system is called Chroma-Base/Chroma Clear.

Most paint companies have a version of this system.

In my opinion, the biggest advantage of the single-stage systems is that when properly applied and properly buffed/waxed, etc. they do not have the 'fake' wet look of the clear-coat paints. They look like period paints. The best base-coat clear coat systems have depth created by the clear coat and you can tell that there is a 'clear plastic coating' on top of the color. It looks great, don't get me wrong. Done right, it makes a spectacular paint job.

But on an old bike or an old car it just looks... wrong. Whereas single stage paint has that correct sheen or glow that looks like it should... at least in my opinion.

The very early machines, by the way, were generally done in nitrocellulose lacquer. This entailed spraying (or, in the earliest days brushing) dozens of thin coats with wet sanding between coats. This is a true 'coach finish.' I cannot say whether this was used much on bikes, but certainly was commonly used on brass era cars. (Bike makers were far more avant-garde than car makers in their adoption of finishes, in my opinion, so they may have gone right to more durable enamels and stoving enamels for things like frames). But a properly done nitrocellulose lacquer paint job has a look that is different from anything else... and drop dead gorgeous. Unfortunately, it is very delicate and naturally shrinks and crazes over time. Lacquer is almost 'alive' in that it will always be outgassing and gradually drying long after the volatiles seem to have left it. So while beautiful and easy to touch up, it's durability is not great.

If you look online, there are lots of (cheap) used automotive handbooks and shop manuals from the 20's and '30's available. Dykes automotive and motorcycle encyclopedia books ring a bell. Many of those include chapters on painting, since it was common to repaint a lacquer car every few years. There will be a wealth of information for you there. I saw a piece a few months ago that in New York City alone, by the 1920's, there were over 100 shops dedicated just to wheel re-painting. Between winters and curbs, apparently wheels were repainted virtually every year and could be done in a matter of a few hours.

Cheers,

Sirhr

[exeric]

Solvent based, nitrocellulos lacquer did not come into use until the early 1920s and it was a duPont (DUCO) product. Also, I do not know of ANY motorcycle company that used lacquer due to the delicate nature of it's cured state. Mororcycles lived a rough life in those days. Indian was bought by a duPont family member and E. Paul duPont made his family's paint the exclusive brand for Indian. To my knowledge, Indian always used enamel paint, but sold a lot of lacquer to General Motors (who duPont also owned a big chunk of). I like lacquer, but to achieve it's potential is a lot of work and still, not authentic.

[Rubone]

"STATE COLOR WHEN ORDERING ENAMELED PARTS".

That was a generic term used to specify painted parts and did not specifically mean painted with enamel.

[sirhrmechanic]

Solvent based, nitrocellulos lacquer did not come into use until the early 1920s and it was a duPont (DUCO) product. Also, I do not know of ANY motorcycle company that used lacquer due to the delicate nature of it's cured state. Mororcycles lived a rough life in those days. Indian was bought by a duPont family member and E. Paul duPont made his family's paint the exclusive brand for Indian. To my knowledge, Indian always used enamel paint, but sold a lot of lacquer to General Motors (who duPont also owned a big chunk of). I like lacquer, but to achieve it's potential is a lot of work and still, not authentic.

Eric... you are, of course, correct. Nitrocellulose was later as you state and I have probably inhaled too much of it, thus the excuse for inaccurate and controversial remarks. The early coach builders used a form of pigmented laquer/coach paint, but was not nitrocellulose. One of the reasons that Model T Ford's were all black... was that it dried marginally faster than any other color. I will look up the formula, but I suspect it was a varnish.

Thanks for the correction!

Cheers,

Sirhr

[exeric]

That was a generic term used to specify painted parts and did not specifically mean painted with enamel.

I would disagree with that Robbie. Indian often referred to parts that were "Japaned", or "Japaning" which Sirhr touched on. Japaning was a more generic term for parts that could have been lacquered, enameled, dipped, or highly finished. Also, my quote was taken out of context. The entire Indian statement is: "STATE COLOR WHEN ORDERING ENAMELED PARTS, RED IS STANDARD, AND WILL BE SENT UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED."