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and, yes, my 59 is painted as a 60. It's also sitting in a K model frame, has 67 up front forks, the wrong seat -- and the list goes on. It's a rider . . .and I do enjoy riding it. I put on about 2K miles a year, which isn't bad considering it lives with six other bikes I also enjoy riding.
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BIG thanks to Mike Love and Keith Kizer for featuring the Q ship in the April AMCA Newsletter!
Thanks guys! We hope it inspires more people to share their builds and keep the club growing!
And, we hope to share the completed Q ship at Wauseon (fingers crossed!) or Davenport (double fingers crossed!)
Stay safe, and remember -- motorcycling is social distancing :-)Comment
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The weather finally cooperated and I got down to painting over the weekend.
Unlike a lot of people, I actually like painting outdoors. No, you don't get the same super duper high quality finish you get in a booth or even in a taped off garage . . .but believe it or not, with some thought you can do a really clean job outside.
Obviously, black is the hardest to spray outdoors. My trick is real simple -- over reduce the black so it flashes fast and resign yourself to multiple thin coats for coverage. And, that's really it. If you get dust or insects in clear, you can usually polish them out and flow coat. Yippee.
Otherwise, here are all my outdoor painting tips:
1) choose a day with high level winds -- it tends to blow dust OVER and not on your stuff.
2) paint in an area shielded from morning sun -- this is so as the wind patterns change through the morning sunrise you don't find dust being blown into your paint work
3) either wet the area under your painting area or try to paint after a good rain.
4) organize your stuff and work quick, but not stupid
5) use as many racks as you can to transfer stuff inside to dry after clear coating
6) take your time
7) dry air -- really dry air
Otherwise, I've painted dozens of bikes with really cheap paint (tractor and implement!) and really good paint. My favorite "mid-level" paint is House of Kolor. The paints are OK, but the clears are unbelievably forgiving. The primers are OK too; but really, I buy it for the clear.
I paint with a $9 Harbor Freight touch up gun. I've done more than two dozen bikes with this cheapo gun in the last decade. It's "eh" at best -- but at 30 psi with over reduced HOK clear -- it flows out like crazy and makes even a poor painter like me look like I know something. It also passes the stringy phase fast -- making it great for outdoor warriors like me. It does take a full 24 hours to harden in shop conditions - but it goes out of the "risk" window after 2 hours or so in my experience.
The color I chose is HOK Solar Gold. It's a cross between the Honda gold of the 1970s and the bronzy gold Harley offered in the late 60s. I just got tired of seeing the same colors at meets . . .and figured a gold sporty would stand out.
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Decals will go on the tank this week and then everything gets mounted up. We'll do the transmission in a week or so . . .and then start break in miles.Comment
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We got down to color sanding out the one stupid operator induced error in the paint work. I ran the clear right in the center of the fuel tank. Argh. tiny run -- but noticeable. So, I color sanded and polished the whole top of the tank. It's up for decals in a few mintues and then on the bike we go.
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There's nothing special going on -- just straight up color sanding. I went from 800 to 1000 to 1500 to 2000 grit; followed by rubbing compound, polishing compound, swirl remover, and finally a very light haze wax.Comment
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Decals
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Wow chuck, very impressive, i hope to see it soon at one of the meets, if we ever have anyComment
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Beautiful work, Chuck. Even though painting is hard, tedious, nerve-wracking work; when you get results like you did; you just love the world and everything in it
I always do my own painting, and it''s that moment when you take a seat and look at what you have accomplished that makes it all worthwhile. Again, beautiful work, and thanks for taking the time to post the pictures.
Eric Smith
AMCA #886Comment
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So, we brought the bike out in the sun to take a few photos.
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And a few more. I tossed in some shots so folks can see what sort of reflection/clarity you can get at home. In most cases my finger is more than an inch from the paint work . .. so it gives you an idea. I'm not that good of a painter . .. it's the materials -- really.
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I enjoyed following your post. Now it is your turn to enjoy riding it. Nice job.Comment
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The last piece of the pie on the Q ship’s rebuild is the transmission, kicker, and clutch/primary. We saved these for last for a reason. They take a lot of time to set up properly. Not to get them working – to set them up for the sort of smooth action you dream of . . . and is entirely possible with a sporty transmission.
Like previous articles; this isn’t a step by step DIY guide, but rather an overview. The Factory Service Manual (FSM) covers the standard transmission servicing and numerous online resources exist to help walk you through the basics. Instead, much of what we’re going to cover assumes you’ve built several transmissions and have a very clear understanding of how they work. Some of what we’ll discuss also requires you to have either a machine shop or access to a machinist who will do the work for you. So, sit back and ask questions. We are happy to clarify anything.
Let’s start with something that may not be obvious – the transmission should not be treated in isolation. If you look at the Factory Service Manual; you’ll see this. The “Transmission” section covers the starting (kick or electric), shifting, and power transmission (clutch and gearbox) functions as related to one another. Concentrate on understanding how they all work together – and how each needs to be top notch for you to achieve your goals. This careful fitting with a larger assembly in mind is one of the key aspects of what “blue printing” is all about. It results in:
1) A reliable transmission
2) A reliable kicker that doesn’t bite back
3) The sort of smooth shifting many don’t believe is possible on any Harley
4) Finding neutral at a stop without worry or even thinking about it
One of the best ways to improve your overall understanding of these systems beyond the FSM is to do some reading. Please take the time the time to read, digest, and understand these three sets of threads by Dr. Dick. We can’t write these up any better than him!
Giving Kicker Slip the Boot http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1172767
Blueprinting your shifter http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1734747
C ratio conversion http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1582406
Let’s start from the very beginning. In planning out this particular motorbike, we knew that we’d be passing some 70-80 horsepower through the powertrain. This is considerably more stress than a stock bike. Therefore, we decided to go with all Andrews gears and shafts. Stock Harley gears and many of the “inexpensive” replacements on the market are not of very good quality. If you insist on running these gears, at least change the 23T gears on the main and countershafts for higher quality units like Andrews. Those gears fail regularly and many problems blamed on other things like the speedo drive start with one of those two gears. Not every problem – but many of them. By coincidence, the basket case 64CH came with two transmissions – once I cleaned off the muck, it turned out both were all Andrews gears and shafts. So, I suddenly had 4 shafts and 16 gears to choose from.
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Inspection was a different story. After cleaning the gears, I found the first gears on both Andrews sets were toast. Someone had powershifted into first and rounded the dogs on both sets of gears badly. So I went into my spares pile for a replacement HD gear. On 1st gear, HD gears rarely fail. I then spotted a series of pits just starting in the 4th gear main shaft (clutch gear) of the one clutch gear that didn’t have rounded dogs. The gear box had been stored with old oil and the acid sat in the valley of the gear teeth. The result was corrosion. Because the CS gear was mated . . . that tooth was also pitted. Crud, now I have to get a 4th gear set. Instead of just a stock replacement, we decided it was a perfect time to do the c-ratio conversion as outlined by Dr. Dick. To my surprise; I snagged the gear set on Amazon for just over $200! And, I had a gift card so the actual cost to me was ZERO. Even better.
The original goal was to show you how to do the c-ratio conversion yourself with a lathe and tool post grinder. These are advanced operations, but not out of the question for a lot of people with their own lathe or milling machine. However, I couldn’t find my tool post grinder. I asked for help and thankfully Dr. Dick agreed to take care of the grinding operations. While Dr. Dick was grinding the gear, I took care of modifying the hub nut for a seal.
With the shiny new c-ratio clutch gear in hand, it was time to get down to building a transmission. We previously cleaned, inspected and bagged the gears and shafts. We also blueprinted the shifter over the winter. Those parts were cleaned, bagged, and ready to assemble. So, the last bit was cleaning all the clutch components, thrust washers, and ancillaries.
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Much like when I build motors, I like to use the work bench to lay out all my parts. When doing things that involve shims or thrust washers, I also lay out the shims/washers by size. I note right on the towel or card stock the size. I also usually label one side or another with the actual measurement (usually they mic a bit above or below the stated size). I also lay out my forks by size so I can easily swap between them. You’ll also see various micrometers and calipers on the bench – even though I write down the sizes; I take no chances and measure each shim/thrust washer, etc.
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Our first order of business was assembling all the shifter parts to the door and then in the engine cases with no gears or shafts. We want to check the full action of the shifter and make sure everything is kosher. It is far easier to address any deficiencies now. In particular, if you have a loose shift rod (the part the forks slide on) in the trap door, take the time to Loctite it in place. Sleeve retaining Loctite works great. Bolt the door in place so it is supported at both ends and let it set up overnight. Remember, the shifter must work correctly EVERY SINGLE TIME. If it doesn’t – fix it. Follow Dr. Dick’s instructions in the Blueprinting Your Shifter thread and you’ll be happy.
Now that we have the shift mechanism working correctly, it’s time to start fitting gears. On most gear boxes, you do need to press CS4 to the shaft and achieve a .002 end play from CS2. These Andrews’s gears and shafts are a hand fit. So, you have to keep in mind the shaft will float. If you set end play with no clearance between those gears, it will change in service.
From here, it was straight forward. The mysterious “fork spacing” really isn’t that mysterious. Put simply, the closer the dog faces are to a gear, the deeper the engagement. Deep engagement = notchier shifting, but longer service life under extreme conditions. Instead of thinking about it from the FSM measurement, I prefer to space for depth of dog engagement. It’s hard to describe, but I look for smooth, even, and deep engagement. I also space 1st further away to encourage smoother shifting into first. Remember, you space not only with forks but also with the CS1 left-side thrust washer. Basically, you can adjust all the gears with some creativity. In my case, I wound up using one +20 and one -20 fork, plus a .065 thrust washer on the CS1. For those of you who are more focused on numbers – this worked out to roughly .045-.050 spacing on each dog face.
One thing you might notice is that the top hats on the shift forks look weird. That’s because they are. Those are big twin top hats ground down to fit the sporty forks. The sporty top hat has a chamfer at the top which prevents it from making full contact with the shift cam plate. By grinding down the big twin top hat; we get full engagement with the cam plate. And, make sure they are good, hardened top hats. If you can cut them with a file – they are too soft. Otherwise, you simply grind them to length.
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With spacing done, it was time to move on to shaft end play. It was no trouble to dial in the main shaft. I do prefer to set main shafts loose and aim for around .010 – but up to .014/.015 does not scare me. I wound up at .013 on this one. It didn’t feel anywhere near as good tighter as it did looser. And if you get where that sentence is coming from – it means I took the transmission in and out several times not just checking the endplay – but also how the whole thing felt. Just because something is “in spec” doesn’t mean that is the best spec. A solid understanding of how it should feel when shifting through the gears helps you figure out if going a bit tighter or looser is the right thing to do.
The countershaft proved more challenging. Earlier, we fit a reinforcing ring around the CS boss to help hold stuff together in the advent of a transmission failure. This means that the speedo drive gear on the stock 900 CS 1st is in the way. You can either buy a non-speedo 1st gear – or drive off the worm gear and cut/grind the gear down. I choose the later because I had a nearly new CS 1st. However, I didn’t cut the shelf back quite enough and the gear fouled on the reinforcing ring. Once I got that corrected, I discovered I had only .030 end play – with no thrust washer. This meant I was staring at: 1) buying a new gear; 2) grinding a custom .020-025 shim; or 3) counter boring the gear.
If we got a new gear we have to redo the fork spacing. That seems a waste and expensive.
If we custom grind a thrust washer, we then have to do that in the future. Not to mention, I don’t like thin thrust washers.
If we counter bore, there’s no change in the fork spacing and we can use an off the shelf washer.
So, counter boring we went. After setting the gear up in the lathe, it was just a matter of boring the gear shelf about .025 deeper. With all that done, we had .008 end play on the countershaft.
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Remember what I said about having access to a machine shop or machinist to get this all done? That said, if you use a non-speedo drive CS 1st, it should go easier. Similarly, if there wasn’t a reinforcing ring installed, the machining could have been avoided. It’s one of those things where one decision begets another decision.
The final tests in the cases revealed smooth shifting and clean engagement of all gears. As a tip, don’t shift through the gears once. Do it dozens of times up and down the range. Everything must work correctly every single time. If it doesn’t, find out why. It’s easier to fix it now. No problem magically resolves itself. Similarly, if you can’t find neutral easily now – you won’t on the road. Correct any problems. Once you are satisfied, install the seal on the right side – remember to do so with a sprocket and allow it to self-center before tightening down. And, don’t forget to bend over all the lock tabs and install the oiler plug in the CS bore . . . with the hole facing up (12 o’clock).
With the transmission installed, we moved on to installing the kicker components. Job one is checking the shaft end float. As new, the kicker shaft shipped from the MOCO with .001-.007 end play. For the Dr. Dick kicker shaft we are using on this bike, we want roughly .005-.007 endplay. I got super lucky and had .006 without a shim. We then moved through the parts, checking the fit and engagement of each piece. This includes testing the ratchet gear mechanism and engagement dozens and dozens of times. To put it another way; you don’t want to find out you have kicker slip when you’re in the middle of a kick to the moon. Everything went smoothly and we were able to move on to the primary install.
The primary and clutch install are straight forward with two exceptions:
1) The new c-ratio conversion requires the hub nut to be machined for a seal and a spacer ring. The spacer ring needs a touch of sealant like Yama bond to stay oil tight.
2) We were missing one of the four clutch release push rods . . . so we made one out of a drill bit
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You’ll also see some silver paint on the clutch drum rivets. That is a cheap insurance policy for drum leaks. It is not a panacea for a leaky rivet job. I also got very lucky and the clutch cover was NOT marred from previous owners. The machine marks were still present and the cover flat. It should seal well without much fuss.
And that’s it; the Q ship now has a transmission.
Which also means we are getting close to seeing whether or not it runs.
We got stopped by me misplacing the lock tab washer for the front drive sprocket. As soon as that gets in we can finish adjusting the clutch, installing the drive chain and seeing whether the beast fires up.Comment
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At Memorial Day, the 64CH was all done, shiny and ready to ride.
What it didn't want to do was consistently spark off for me under full compression. After kicking her for a bit, I realized I needed to look at the magneto more deeply. It was a unit I traded for and sparked with a twist of the fingers, but something wasn't right.
I eventually figured out that when I tightened the upper bearing plate -- the rotor started to drag. I knew I was beyond my skills on this one and needed to call a specialist.
A quick call to Dr. Dick saw the magneto AND the GBL winging their way to the doc's shop for a look see. He had a sneaking suspicion about the magneto -- and he was right.
Basically, there was nothing wrong with the magneto electrically or magnetically. Instead, the problem it had was from the very beginning of its life and some bad attempts at fixing it.
Long story made short; the original Fairbanks-Morse magneto heads used TWO bearings in the head (each end of the rotor) and then there were two more bearings in the coupler that attached the head to the motor. This allowed for slight misalignments to be cancelled out by the coupler.
When HD adapted the FM magneto; they added a third bearing in the base unit. This bearing is a 1 inch long bronze bush. Basically, any misalignment between the body and the base puts a side load on the long rotor shaft. If you look at the FM base, you'll see it is held in place by counter sunk flat head screws. This is about the worst way to locate to precision assemblies . . .and contributes to the issue. As FM production went on . . .the dies became more worn and the machining less precise. By the mid to late 60s -- a lot of the units show some misalignment and the one on the Q ship was no exception.
The doc sorted it out and here are a few of the photos of the work:
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I got the magneto back just before the 4th of July. When I sent the mag, I could get it to consistenly jump a 1/4 to 3/8th gap by hand. When it came back, I could jump a 3/4 inch gap easily and when I wound it up I could jump 7/8ths by hand. That's a good spark :-)
The GBL will take a few more months. The doc decided he wanted to rebuild it and start making a run of throttle discs for the 1.75 throat carbs. Stay tuned for that saga. In the mean time, we are breaking the bike in on the DC linkert from my 59 XLH. It only takes an hour to swap the carbs so I can ride both bikes for the time being.Comment
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Gladys is born!
At 08:30 CDT on 6 July 2020 -- Gladys the Q ship was born.
She is 78 cubic inches and 390 pounds of angry old lady.
It took some kicking to get her lit the first time -- but so worth it. The tone is wicked, wicked mean on the siftons and with the alloy cylinders.
It will be a bunch of heat cycles before I can really start breaking her in -- but the most important thing is that she's alive and sounded great the first time.
As for the name: Q ships are a class designation, not a name.
Like boats, I find it bad luck to name a bike before it can float (well run down the road) on its own.
So, this one got named Gladys cause she'll be a cranky old lady -- who will love her owner and be pretty mean to the neighborhood "kids."
Yippee.
Sadly, she won't get shared at Wauseon or Davenport this year. But, I'm a Chicagoan -- so there's ALWAYS next year.
Happy riding and thanks for reading along!Comment
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After nearly 30 years of kicking over hard to kick bikes, I decided it was time to find an easier way. Adding electric starters is one option for many bikes, but not for tin cover, magneto fired sportsters.
Enter the roller starter (aka as paddock or pit starters). These generally take two forms: 1) starters that act on the crank and 2) starters that act on the rear wheel to “bump” the bike to life. Because all my bikes have rear wheels – I went with option #2 as the most useful.
For at least the last decade I’ve seen advertisements for Doc Z “solo starters” and so I checked them out first. I quickly learned that pre-made roller starters are at least $800 and units with good reputations are over $1000. There’s also a small cottage industry of guys making these for others – but the price is always over $750. And, many use 12v starter motors – so you still have to add batteries. That pushes the price up and doesn’t make it as “portable” as 12v suggests.
As a result, I decided to build my own – and make it operate on household voltage. Here’s why:
1) I can more easily get commercial 120v motors for my needs
2) No batteries to maintain or lug around
3) The starter is for tuning purposes, first start situations, and most importantly – first cold morning start. Once warmed up – the bikes are easy to kick. So, I only need it in the shop.
With that decided, we started scrounging for scrap and buying what we needed. Here is my materials list:
2 – 2x2x24 square tubing
2- 2x2x36 square tubing
2 – 3x3x10 square tubing
1 – 3x3x6 square tubing
1 – ¼ x 4 x 10 steel plate
1 – 1/8 x 1-1/2x5 steel strap
4 – 5/8 bore cast iron pillow blocks (3,500 rpm)
2 – 12 inch long by 5/8 OD keyed jackshafts (go kart parts)
3 – 20 tooth #40/41 chain 5/8 bore keyed sprockets
1 – 10 tooth #40/41 chain 5/8 bore keyed sprocket
2 – 5/8 bore keyed hub connectors
5 – 3/16 by 1 key ways
4 – 3 inch OD by 1-1/2 steel slugs
2 – 3-1/4 inch OD by 7 inch DOM tubing
2 – 12 inch lengths of 3/8-16 all thread
6 – ¼-20 by 1.5 inch machine screws
10 – 3/8-16 nuts and washers
1 – Foot control switch (15 amp minimum)
1 – 7/9 inch 15amp angle grinder (6000 rpm)
1 – 5 foot section of #40 chain and 2 master links
1 – 5 foot section of 4 inch wide 3M grip tape
Buying all this stuff off the shelf is about $400. Less if you scrounge. You’ll also need a welder and some way to bore the slugs for the jack shafts. I used my lathe to make all the parts.
This particular set of materials gives you a rear wheel rpm on a standard 18 inch tire that equals about 30 mph. For a stock bike, this is more speed than needed. But, on a big inch, magneto fired stroker, we need the extra wheel speed to light the bike.
Here’s how it works. The 15amp grinder spins at 6000 rpm. This is about 3hp in mechanical terms. More than enough to get the job done. But, 6000 is way too fast. We gear this down with the sprockets and chain at a 2:1 ratio. This gives a roller speed of 3000 rpm. The diameter of the rollers was chosen to give a rear wheel rpm of 375-400 rpm on all my bikes. The math is just calculating surface speeds similar to using rpm to calculate true mph.
With that done, we moved on to making the actual rollers. The frame is the easy part. You simply tack all your pieces together and then go for heavy beads. We chose to stack the 2” tubing in order to elevate the “rear” roller. Talking to other people revealed this is the biggest improvement in designs. We also learned that a center to center distance of between 12 and 13 inches is about ideal for cradling a tire. We went with 12.5 inches to split the difference.
To make the rollers, I turned slugs of 3 inch OD by 1.5 inch thick 1016 steel to be press fits in the DOM tubing used for the rollers. On the “drive” side for the main roller, we made this a .004 interference fit and used a 20 ton hydraulic press to seat slug. While in the lathe, the slugs were center bored 5/8 for the axle shafts. The slugs were then positioned and tack welded to the tubing.
To transfer power to the tubing (and make things easily replaceable) I used hub connectors. These are nothing more than big sleeves with three holes in them. To easily find our positions, I slipped the hubs over the shafts and installed them in the rollers. I center punched the holes, drilled and tapped them ¼-20. Now, the shafts can be secured to the hub and the hub to the roller. If anything gets damaged, standard go kart parts can replace everything in minutes.
The rollers ride in cast iron pillow blocks. These are secured to the 2” tubing by 3/8-16 studs so the pillow blocks can move fore/aft to tension the chains. I drilled and tapped 3/8 holes for the pillow blocks and then screwed in all thread. Each all thread chunk also got one tack weld to hold it to the frame during assembly.
The grinder motor conveniently comes with three 3/8-16 threaded holes for the grip handle. We used these to mount the motor to a plate welded in the rear. We also used a big old hose clamp to provide “tension” for setting chain slack. The sprockets are all held in place with keyways and set screws. So, this is a bolt together, bolt apart affair outside the frame and every part is replaceable independently in case of damage or wear.
The last step was adding grip tape to the rollers.
The reason for using 3” tubing at the front was so that when I put a ¾ inch plywood ramp in front of the starter the actual “bump” to get over is only 1 inch.
With all that said and done, I put Gladys on the rollers for their first test. If they could start a 78 inch mag fired stroker – they can start most anything.
Indeed, the starters worked as intended. I put Gladys in 4th gear, spun the rear wheel up, dumped the clutch and enjoyed the sound of fury.
Now that I know the starters work, I’ll go back and finish the welds (most everything is just tacked at this stage) and paint it so it doesn’t look like garbage.
It did take me about 15 hours to machine, weld, and assemble everything. I know why these things cost $800-1000 minimum – that’s about what it would cost me to make them if I paid myself. My real cost was $250. I got much of the steel for free and I used a bunch of rebates at Menards to get the grinder for free. Most of the $250 I spent was for shipping on heavy steel items and having to buy a new spool of welding wire because I ran out. I also got some really good deals on karting parts, which lowered the cost as well.
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