1920 Harley Model F

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

While I wait for spokes to arrive (thanks USPS. Not!) I had a look at some sub assemblies, amongst which is the speedometer.

The instrument itself seems to be the standard one that was offered as an optional extra for my bike. Whilst UK law does not compel me to have one for a vehicle of this age I would like to refit it but it does need some work before it can go back.

It came to me exactly as you see it here:










The bezel has been removed and there is a spare bezel. One bezel, presumably the original, is split as you can see here.




However the guts of the thing seem to have not been disturbed so in all probability would work fine if they were cleaned up and lubricated correctly.

The case is rusty but solid so is fine for reuse but the item that seems to be in the worst condition is the boss where the speedometer drive exits the case.







As you can see its cracked and looks like it has been disturbed in the past by someone.

I have a some questions.

How does the bezel hold onto the case? I only have experience with Smiths instruments where the bezel screws on.

Also are parts available? I am thinking about the cracked boss/fitting where the drive joins to the cable.

Finally, I assume that there are some specialists in the USA who fix these things? But before I ship it off to the USA can anyone recommend someone in the UK?


Thanks,

John

[TechNoir]

Thanks for the info eric. I have been to Florida quite a few times and so I am familiar with the humidity so its good to know that it works in your climate.

[exeric]

John, I have been using Johnson's Paste Wax on my bikes. Florida is hellishly hot and humid and even though my storage area gets passive climate control, it is still quite humid. The paste wax really keeps the moisture at bay but of course, it puts a dull and noticeable coating on an object. Better than rust, but not as good as living in Arizona !

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

You might remember the unscientific test I did on a piece of rusty steel with various rust preventatives. Here is an update.

It has been outside for about a month with a lot of rail, wind and some snow on the piece and this is what it looks like now.



From left to right the 8 sections have been coated with:

Owatrol Oil (AKA Penetrol in the USA)
Boiled Linseed Oil
Fliud Film (Lanolin based)
Dynax UC (Clear underbody wax)
ACF50
WD40
Paste Wax
Nothing

The WD40 has just about completely gone and quite a bit of the Fluid Film has gone too.

The ACF50 has not fully dried out, as expected.

Interestingly both the Owatrol and the Linseed Oil have significantly lost their shine (which is good) and they have maintained their anti corrosion effect. The Owatrol has the best anti corrosion rating (although I suspect that its made from Linseed Oil) and it seems like the Linseed has fared similarly.

The paste wax has an oily residue which is easily wiped off. I am pretty sure its the wax separating from the solvent that makes it soft. However it has fared pretty well in keeping the rust at bay.

The bare steel has rusted more than it looks like in the picture but interestingly the WD40 piece looks rustier.

Like I said this is not scientific but I just wanted to see how they compared for myself because there are lots of reviews of them on the web but not many comparisons.

I will probably go with just the paste wax because I like how it looks the best and it give enough protection for my needs.

Also, if I do decide to paint it in the future I reckon a good steam clean will remove any wax quite easily.

John

[TechNoir]

Thanks Mark, I thought that was the case from what you said before. It has been suggested that the change in material is WWI related. It makes sense if it is and also it ties in with the color change to green.

John

[MMasa]

To the best of my knowledge, only 1916 and earlier tanks used the cast brass/bronze mounting tabs.
Mark

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Hello folks. The HD is progressing slowly at the moment as there are a few things i am waiting for. I would like to get the wheels sorted out but it seems that USPS in their wisdom sent the spokes that I ordered on 27th January to Africa rather than the UK. Go figure.

While I wait for replacements to arrive I had a look at the right hand petrol tank that had been painted a dark red colour. If you remember it looked like this.




I have stripped about 80% of the paint off it and it seems very good with no obvious holes but a few small dents and an old repair on the bottom just next to the outlet. Do they all go here? One of the other right hand tanks I have has a repair there.





However I was also wondering if this tank is a 1920 tank or earlier? The reason I ask is that both axeric and Mark Masa both said that the fittings on earlier tanks were brass. The fittings on the bottom of this one, not just the outlet but the angle brackets like the one just in front of the valve cutout in the picture above.

The other tank that I have, shown below, has steel angle brackets.



I was just wondering if any of the post 1916 right hand tanks had brass fittings also?

Thanks

John

[TechNoir]

The spring guide rods have a cap at the top that is supposed to keep the tube from collapsing at the slot. Later guide rods have a MUCH longer cap so that rod that provides a longer "slug" in the tube. The early style like the ones shown in your picture only have a short lip that fits inside of the tube. It is conceiled under the cap so you could modify your rods if you like.
Mark

Thanks Mark. That makes sense. I had seen the shallow cap at the top of the guide rods but they are, as you say, very short so i was dubious about how effective they are. I might buy some later rods but before I do that I think I will turn up some cap extensions that will slide over the guide rods and sit on top of the upper springs. That should do the same job as the later caps. If I am not happy with the arrangement I can always go with plan A and get some later rods.

John

[MMasa]

The spring guide rods have a cap at the top that is supposed to keep the tube from collapsing at the slot. Later guide rods have a MUCH longer cap so that rod that provides a longer "slug" in the tube. The early style like the ones shown in your picture only have a short lip that fits inside of the tube. It is conceiled under the cap so you could modify your rods if you like.
Mark

[TechNoir]

Hi John,
this guy might be able to help you, he is in Hastings and he makes and repairs some pretty good stuff.
http://www.jake-robbins-vintage-engineering.co.uk/
Cheers
Tony

Thanks Tony. I agree, Jake Robbins is THE MAN as far as girder forks go.

However I had a think overnight and I measured everything and worked out that with the springs at full compression they would be 3 inches shorter than the space that they are contained in so I have now just gone for it and compressed them and fitted the caps.

What concerns me (and I am sure this is unfounded given that numerous Harleys and Brough Superiors used these forks) is that the amount of stored energy in these springs is large and it is contained by a cap that is screwed onto a tube with a split in in which cant be the strongest arrangement even when new.

However I am going to trust it works as designed, I am sure it will be fine.

John

[kiwi tibbs]

Hi John,
this guy might be able to help you, he is in Hastings and he makes and repairs some pretty good stuff.
http://www.jake-robbins-vintage-engineering.co.uk/
Cheers
Tony

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Hello guys, I spent some time looking at the forks this morning.

First I did something which I had neglected to do previously which was check them to see if they were straight. They were not too bad although they do (did now) have a slight twist in them. I clamped them to my bench and straightened them. It was not much but I figured that they need doing now.



The bike used to have a sidecar attached. I wondered if a sidecar might tend to exert a twisting force on a bike that might, over time, put a slight twist in the forks or frame? (My frame is ok)



Then I made a fork spring compressor. A big thanks to 26harleyj for showing me his and allowing me to copy it. I did not have any suitable pipe for the bottom plate so I found some 6mm (1/4") plate and bent it into a suitable shape. It seems to work great but I have a question.












I compressed the springs until I started to feel a large increase in the force needed to screw the nuts onto the studding and stopped because I don’t want to apply too much force to the forks if I don’t need to. However when I put the small springs into the top of the forks it was obvious that I was no where near the point that I could get the caps on top of the forks screwed on.

So my question is what are the correct spring lengths? The long ones that I have are 17 1/8" long and the short ones are 8 7/8" long.

Are these lengths correct before I start using a bigger spanner to compress the springs?


John

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Update on bottom cone.

I am still trying to see if it is feasible to get some made myself. I need to cad up a sketch and send it to the company I am talking to so that they can give me an idea of cost.

However I hope that I don’t need to get them made myself because:

Tom Feeser from Replicant Metals has got back to me and in summary his cups and cones are currently at the machine shop then when completed sometime in March they next go to be hardened, then to finishing shop to have oven scale blasted clean then on to platers for finish. He expects them to be ready in about June.

I have asked him if he could confirm the size of the bottom cone but unfortunately he cant until they get back to him once they are finished.

So, if they turn out to be the right ones then I will get some from Tom.

if they are not the right ones then I guess I will look at doing them myself.

Unless of course anyone knows of another source for these items?

John

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

OK, here is a status update re the steering head cup and cone bearings.

Mark Masa, in post #31 of this thread, pointed out that the new bottom cone that I have been supplied with is incorrect. I have no doubt that he is correct, Mark seems to be a walking Harley Davidson J and JD encyclopedia.

Mark mentioned someone called Jim Denney in New York State who might have some but I have drawn a blank on tracking Jim down.

So I have made some enquiries in other directions.

First I have spoken to some suppliers who advertise J & JD parts and state on their website that they stock 1920 cups and cones.

Geloman in Germany say that they don’t have this size.

Antique Motorcycle Parts in Sweden say that they don’t stock them any more because the ones that they bought in were poor quality. They did say that they are planning on having them manufactured themselves but it wont be until late 2016.

Replicant Metals list them as items that they plan to make some time in the future. I have sent them an email asking when they plan to make them.

Meanwhile I have made enquiries here in the UK with a bespoke bearing manufacturer to see how feasible/affordable it would be to get a batch done myself.

I will update when I know some more.

John

[TechNoir]

Thanks James. I think Gibbs gives a similar finish to Owatrol/Penetrol. It is certainly a great rust stabiliser and preventer but a bit shiny for what I am aiming for. I am going to start with paste wax and see how it fares. If, at a later date, I decide I need better protection but not paint I will then compare Owatrol and Gibbs.

I have certainly ruled out ACF50 and FluidFilm.