1920 Harley Model F

[kiwi tibbs]

Hi John,
this guy might be able to help you, he is in Hastings and he makes and repairs some pretty good stuff.
http://www.jake-robbins-vintage-engineering.co.uk/
Cheers
Tony

[TechNoir]

Hi John,
this guy might be able to help you, he is in Hastings and he makes and repairs some pretty good stuff.
http://www.jake-robbins-vintage-engineering.co.uk/
Cheers
Tony

Thanks Tony. I agree, Jake Robbins is THE MAN as far as girder forks go.

However I had a think overnight and I measured everything and worked out that with the springs at full compression they would be 3 inches shorter than the space that they are contained in so I have now just gone for it and compressed them and fitted the caps.

What concerns me (and I am sure this is unfounded given that numerous Harleys and Brough Superiors used these forks) is that the amount of stored energy in these springs is large and it is contained by a cap that is screwed onto a tube with a split in in which cant be the strongest arrangement even when new.

However I am going to trust it works as designed, I am sure it will be fine.

John

[MMasa]

The spring guide rods have a cap at the top that is supposed to keep the tube from collapsing at the slot. Later guide rods have a MUCH longer cap so that rod that provides a longer "slug" in the tube. The early style like the ones shown in your picture only have a short lip that fits inside of the tube. It is conceiled under the cap so you could modify your rods if you like.
Mark

[TechNoir]

The spring guide rods have a cap at the top that is supposed to keep the tube from collapsing at the slot. Later guide rods have a MUCH longer cap so that rod that provides a longer "slug" in the tube. The early style like the ones shown in your picture only have a short lip that fits inside of the tube. It is conceiled under the cap so you could modify your rods if you like.
Mark

Thanks Mark. That makes sense. I had seen the shallow cap at the top of the guide rods but they are, as you say, very short so i was dubious about how effective they are. I might buy some later rods but before I do that I think I will turn up some cap extensions that will slide over the guide rods and sit on top of the upper springs. That should do the same job as the later caps. If I am not happy with the arrangement I can always go with plan A and get some later rods.

John

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Hello folks. The HD is progressing slowly at the moment as there are a few things i am waiting for. I would like to get the wheels sorted out but it seems that USPS in their wisdom sent the spokes that I ordered on 27th January to Africa rather than the UK. Go figure.

While I wait for replacements to arrive I had a look at the right hand petrol tank that had been painted a dark red colour. If you remember it looked like this.




I have stripped about 80% of the paint off it and it seems very good with no obvious holes but a few small dents and an old repair on the bottom just next to the outlet. Do they all go here? One of the other right hand tanks I have has a repair there.





However I was also wondering if this tank is a 1920 tank or earlier? The reason I ask is that both axeric and Mark Masa both said that the fittings on earlier tanks were brass. The fittings on the bottom of this one, not just the outlet but the angle brackets like the one just in front of the valve cutout in the picture above.

The other tank that I have, shown below, has steel angle brackets.



I was just wondering if any of the post 1916 right hand tanks had brass fittings also?

Thanks

John

[MMasa]

To the best of my knowledge, only 1916 and earlier tanks used the cast brass/bronze mounting tabs.
Mark

[TechNoir]

Thanks Mark, I thought that was the case from what you said before. It has been suggested that the change in material is WWI related. It makes sense if it is and also it ties in with the color change to green.

John

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

You might remember the unscientific test I did on a piece of rusty steel with various rust preventatives. Here is an update.

It has been outside for about a month with a lot of rail, wind and some snow on the piece and this is what it looks like now.



From left to right the 8 sections have been coated with:

Owatrol Oil (AKA Penetrol in the USA)
Boiled Linseed Oil
Fliud Film (Lanolin based)
Dynax UC (Clear underbody wax)
ACF50
WD40
Paste Wax
Nothing

The WD40 has just about completely gone and quite a bit of the Fluid Film has gone too.

The ACF50 has not fully dried out, as expected.

Interestingly both the Owatrol and the Linseed Oil have significantly lost their shine (which is good) and they have maintained their anti corrosion effect. The Owatrol has the best anti corrosion rating (although I suspect that its made from Linseed Oil) and it seems like the Linseed has fared similarly.

The paste wax has an oily residue which is easily wiped off. I am pretty sure its the wax separating from the solvent that makes it soft. However it has fared pretty well in keeping the rust at bay.

The bare steel has rusted more than it looks like in the picture but interestingly the WD40 piece looks rustier.

Like I said this is not scientific but I just wanted to see how they compared for myself because there are lots of reviews of them on the web but not many comparisons.

I will probably go with just the paste wax because I like how it looks the best and it give enough protection for my needs.

Also, if I do decide to paint it in the future I reckon a good steam clean will remove any wax quite easily.

John

[exeric]

John, I have been using Johnson's Paste Wax on my bikes. Florida is hellishly hot and humid and even though my storage area gets passive climate control, it is still quite humid. The paste wax really keeps the moisture at bay but of course, it puts a dull and noticeable coating on an object. Better than rust, but not as good as living in Arizona !

[TechNoir]

Thanks for the info eric. I have been to Florida quite a few times and so I am familiar with the humidity so its good to know that it works in your climate.

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

While I wait for spokes to arrive (thanks USPS. Not!) I had a look at some sub assemblies, amongst which is the speedometer.

The instrument itself seems to be the standard one that was offered as an optional extra for my bike. Whilst UK law does not compel me to have one for a vehicle of this age I would like to refit it but it does need some work before it can go back.

It came to me exactly as you see it here:










The bezel has been removed and there is a spare bezel. One bezel, presumably the original, is split as you can see here.




However the guts of the thing seem to have not been disturbed so in all probability would work fine if they were cleaned up and lubricated correctly.

The case is rusty but solid so is fine for reuse but the item that seems to be in the worst condition is the boss where the speedometer drive exits the case.







As you can see its cracked and looks like it has been disturbed in the past by someone.

I have a some questions.

How does the bezel hold onto the case? I only have experience with Smiths instruments where the bezel screws on.

Also are parts available? I am thinking about the cracked boss/fitting where the drive joins to the cable.

Finally, I assume that there are some specialists in the USA who fix these things? But before I ship it off to the USA can anyone recommend someone in the UK?


Thanks,

John

[exeric]

Here in the States, Terry Marsh is the man for speedometer repair. The bezel looks like a press fit, which is how the Corbin speedo bezel is fixed to it's case. I think you will need to make a new bezel on a lathe so you can get the precise press fit to the case. The cracked drive boss is going to harder to make. It looks like it was originally pot metal and then nickel plated. If it were mine to fix, I would make a new boss out of brass. I would make it in 2 parts; the treaded portion on a lathe, and the part that fits into the case. I would then silver solder them together, and nickel plate it. Having said all that, a speedometer repairman might have all those parts and save you the trouble That is definitely a speedometer worth repairing as the Johns-Manville, Harley-Davidson speedo is highly prized for J Harleys.

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Here in the States, Terry Marsh is the man for speedometer repair..

Thanks for that Eric, I will call around next week in the UK and if I don’t get any luck here I will contact Terry

I think you will need to make a new bezel on a lathe so you can get the precise press fit to the case.

Perhaps although there is an intact spare one that might be OK.

Having said all that, a speedometer repairman might have all those parts and save you the trouble

That is what I am hoping although I do have a lathe so if I need to I could go with plan B.

That is definitely a speedometer worth repairing as the Johns-Manville, Harley-Davidson speedo is highly prized for J Harleys.

That's interesting to hear. From my limited knowledge, J Harley's were produced in large numbers and I had assumed that lots of them have Johns-Manville speedo's and so assumed that they were quite common. Perhaps not?

Thanks,

John

[exeric]

John, looking at old pictures from the teens and early 20s, you don't commonly see speedometers on motorcycles. They were an expensive option, and judging by the atrocious conditions of most roads in the U.S., speed was not much of a concern. I think speedometer use went hand in hand with road quality. Arguably, that Johns-Manville speedometer with the H-D script could be the most valuable motorcycle speedo. Well, maybe not more than an early knuck speedo, but knuck stuff comes under the crazy category.

[23JDCA 808]

Previous advice is very good. You have pot metal there. It changes size and cracks with age.
This is the first Johns-Manville speedo I have seen; I've only been nipping around the edges of the JD hobby for 20 years though.
Watch on eBay for parts.
http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bbo...-speedo-repair