1920 Harley Model F

[TechNoir]

Thanks Eric, that makes sense although I had assumed that even though speedos were an optional extra there would still be a good few of them around. Maybe not.

Well, maybe not more than an early knuck speedo, but knuck stuff comes under the crazy category.

Yes, I have started to notice that. For me it seems even crazier but I think that might be because Knuckleheads don’t really appeal to my European tastes.

Previous advice is very good. You have pot metal there. It changes size and cracks with age.
This is the first Johns-Manville speedo I have seen; I've only been nipping around the edges of the JD hobby for 20 years though.
Watch on eBay for parts.
http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bbo...-speedo-repair

Thanks for the tip and the link.

John

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Hi folks. I dont have much progress per se to report although when I got home tonight there were 4 parcels waiting for me that will enable me to move some things on. More of those later.

First, I have some more "What are these" questions.

I have these 4 serrated plates which I am not sure what they are?





Also I have these 8 small brackets/clips/clamps.







I am sure that once someone tells me what they are it will be obvious but at the moment it is not so obvious to me.

Thanks


John

[TechNoir]

I am told that the plates are engine plates and the small brackets are for the speedo gear on the rear wheel.

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

I mentioned above that some packages arrived today. I love it when that happens.

There is a picture of the contents of them below but first a HUGE thanks to Terry Marsh. Terry emailed me after my post about my speedo and to summarise I now have the parts to fix mine.

Without boring you with the details I would like to say that the service offered by Terry is fantastic.

Thanks Terry.


First all of the parts



You will notice some spokes. These were posted on the 27th January. However USPS in their wisdom sent them to Gabon in Africa. Anyway, after it was established that they were never going to get to me the vendor sent some more to me a couple of weks ago. They are bare steel so I need to nickel plate them but at least I have them now.


Here are the speedo bits from Terry






Also, my brake bands arrived back from being relined.









There were 4 packages. The fourth one was the piece of sheet that the parts are on in the first picture. I need some 22 gauge steel to repair some tin.

John

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Hello folks, not much progress to report again I am afraid, a combination of family commitments, work and the late arrival of spokes and a small dalay in getting them plated means that I have not moved on much. This weekend in the UK is a holiday weekend but my whole extended family is visiting so not much will get done. However I am hoping to make some progress over the next few weeks.

All that said I have done a bit. The spokes I got were plain steel. I want to nickel plate them but the problem is that industrial platers arent interested in 80 spokes for obvious reasons. Show platers will do them but because they prepare each spoke individually the cost is very high. I have been quoted neary £1,000 with tax. So my plan was to plate them myself using a home kit. It took me ages of experimentation to get all of the variables right. Then I plated just over half of them and my power source burned out. I now have another power source but I am a week behind where I wanted to be.

I have enough spokes for 1 wheel so on Sunday I built up the front wheel. I was going to use the rim from the sidecar because it is in slightly better condition. However the spoke holes are smaller so I abandoned that plan.

Then I fitted a tyre (tire). I have not bought new ones yet. I will be putting new ones on but as an interim measure I am using the ones that came with the bike. They are new but 30 years old and not to be trusted for riding on. However they are fine for wheeling the bike around in my shop.

I have never installed clinchers before and got it done eventually but afterwards I felt like I had been wrestling a gorilla.

Unfortunatly I forgot to take pictures of the wheel build but here is why I wont be using the old tyres.





Interestingly one of them was still wrapped in brown paper and was not cracked. They would make good tyres for a museum piece because they are marked Dunlop.



I was then able to install the front mudguard and wheel and while I was at it I fitted the rear mudguard

I then offered the gearbox up and realised that it has to go in before the rear mudguard.



The gearbox had previously been rebuilt by Bill Healing and had 27 year old tape on the threads and some clips taped to it a a plastic bag.








Here is a picture of things as they are at the moment.




I also realised that there are a few fasteners missing contrary to my previous comments. The gearbox mounting nuts are awol and I cant find any engine mounting nuts and bolts.

There are 2 in the lug on the lower top frame tube here but no others. These look to me to be much smaller than the holes that they are in so I suspect that they are incorrect.



Can anyone confirm the sizes of the engine mounting bolts?


Thats all for now. Like I said, not much. However once the rear wheel is rebuilt then I can start to get things moving a bit quicker.

John

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Well my house guests have now gone home and SWMBO is off on a business trip to the USA and I have finished battling with my moody teenage daughter over her exam revision so I have a bit of time to post about the engine and gearbox.

While my house guests were here over the holiday weekend I got my nephew to help me slot the engine into the frame. I had another look at the boxes of bits and also the pre-basket case pictures and I found I had four engine mounting bolts, contrary to what I thought last week. I haven’t found the nut that goes on top of the front cylinder yet.

Whilst I was looking at the pictures from 1988 I noted that there are 2 serrated plates on either side of the engine mount. This is confirmed by the fact that the bolts are too long with only 1 bolt. This is contrary to what has been said previously on this thread when I enquired about these plates and it was suggested that I only need 2 despite the fact that I have 4. I guess that either there are spec variances from year to year or my bike has been changed from standard spec. Either way mine is keeping all 4 plates.

Here are the pics of the mounts from 1988. They are scans of 6 x 4 prints so are not great quality but good enough to see some details.








And here is the engine in the bike as it is now.






There is quite a juxtaposition between the engine and the frame.

Now I will explain about the engine & transmission. For those who don’t like reading long posts you may want to wait until I have more pictures in a few weeks time. For everyone else I will explain.

As I have said previously, the guy before me had the engine, carb, magneto and gearbox rebuilt by a guy called Bill Healing from William Healing restorations. Bill seems to have had a good reputation as a guy to go to with American Iron over here in the UK a couple of decades ago. He doesn’t seem to be active now so I assume he is retired or passed away. He is mentioned on this forum elsewhere if you do a search. The engine work cost about $13,000 or £8,500 in today’s money. It has apparently been kept as a display piece in a house so I am hopeful that it is good to go with if I am careful when I wake it up.

Not only did I get all of the receipts for the work when I got the bike but Bill Healing did to build reports, one interim and one final that I will reproduce here. I may have to split it up due to the word limit on posts but i will start the report on a new post.

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Interim engine build report (not dated but would be mid to late 1988). You will see why I am hopeful:

Work Completed to Date

Engine

Small end bushes honed out also pistons. Replacement oversize gudgeon pins of full floating type made up to suit & fitted. New liners made up for big ends & fitted in preparation for honing to finished size when new big end pin and rollers are in stock (on order). Piston ring grooves all cleaned out & replacement rings in stock. Replacement push rod made up also 2 upper valve spring covers. 2 replacement O.H.V. Rocker oiler flaps made up. New inlet valve guides made up also valves & lapped into re-machined seats. Inlet manifold found to be badly corroded in olive seatings manifold machined down & new ends shrunk on. New olive retaining nuts made up. Replacement breather pipe assembly made up. Cylinder primers found to be damaged. New base made up & other parts repaired. Cylinder fins ground down to give reasonable shape before plating. All other external nuts, bolts, screws etc de-rusted, replaced or re-shaped & pre polished before stripping old plating & finish prior to plating. Replacement bearing rollers on order.

Magneto,

Stripped armeture rewound, end plate found to be faulty (loose bearing insert) now repaired ready for re-assembly. All other plated parts now repaired & in process of being stripped, polished & re-plated. Replacement control rod made up.

Carburettor.

After cleaning out, found to be worn on butterfly spindle, also distorted & worn butterfly valve. Replacement spindle fabricated & carb body re-bored to suit, replacement butterfly made up. Spindle is now modified to take a screw retained butterfly (rather than old soldered in type). New air balance valve & spindle assembly made up & seating machined to suit. Replacement high speed air flap made up also spindle for the same. All other parts cleaned up & re-shaped or replaced as required. Main body components blasted to remove verdigris prior to plating with other parts.

Gearbox & Clutch

Casing modified and inserted to take modern effective seals & replacement seal centre made up for drive side. Replacement pedal ends and centre tube made up & replacement rubbers spindle end nuts made up. All external nuts, bolts, washers & control gear de-rusted, re-shaped & pre polished prior to stripping old plating, parts now in process of being finished polished with all other parts prior to re-plating. Clutch plates now re-lined ready for assembly.


.................................................. .................................................. ......



Final Assembly Report (Late September 1989)

Engine.

Thoroughly clean out all casing to remove blast cleaning grit & old oil deposits, remove paint from joint faces where required. Pre-assemble crankshaft to casings & make a suitable hardened thrust plate, burnish cylinder bores & lightly cut exhaust valve seats & grind in valves. Grind in inlet valves pockets. Gap piston rings. Finally assemble complete engine & time magneto. Also prime oil pump. Check all functions on bench and fit suitable HT leads.

N.B. Before starting engine, remove plugs & oil cylinders. Prime crankcase to correct level, turn engine over until oil is delivered into sight glass from tank supply, run engine in as normal procedure. Oil pump set as found.

Gearbox/Clutch

Thoroughly clean casing & assemble all parts & adjust to suit. Check clutch action, make up gaskets for covers. Before use fill with oil to correct level. I have found that "Castrol D" gear oil is most suitable for this purpose.

PLEASE SEND KICKSTART LEVER ASAP SO THAT I CAN FINISH ASSEMBLY COMPLETELY.

List of New Parts Made (Engine)

2 gudgeon pins
4 gudgeon pin pads
1 breather pipe
1 breather pipe nipple
2 valve spring sleeves
2 inlet manifold repair sleeves
2 inlet manifold gland nuts
2 pushrods
2 rocker oiler cups
1 magneto control rod
2 magneto control rod ends
1 mainshaft timing wheel key
2 inlet valves
2 inlet valve guides
1 crankcase felt seal
1 timing cover gasket
6 cylinder base gaskets
1 crankshaft end float distance piece


Gearbox

1 gearbox modification seal sleeve
1 gearbox modification distance piece
1 kickstart pedal centre sleeve
2 kickstart pedal end plates
8 top & side cover washers
6 top & side cover nuts
1 clutch lever nut
1 top gasket
1 side gasket

Carburettor

1 Throttle spindle
1 spindle lock pin
2 spindle butterfly screws
1 spindle butterfly
1 choke valve spring
1 high speed air flap lever
1 high speed air flap screw
1 Needle spindle retaining screw
1 float chamber base nut
1 choke valve
1 choke valve spindle
1 choke valve end nut

Magneto (apart from rewinding)

3 bae bolts & washers
1 repair sleeve for bearing/contact breaker housing
2 retaining screws for above
1 dowel/oiler tube

N.B. Do not lubricate magneto bearings via oil flaps as replacement bearings have been packed for life with machine type grease.

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

I don’t have an update to report today but I have a couple of questions to ask.

I have been pondering on some items that I need to buy and I have decided to fit a real light wired up to be a brake light for the sake of safety. The bike didn’t come with lights and I don’t believe it ever had any fitted. It is the magneto model so there isn’t an easy way to rig up a charging system so i plan to fit a total loss system with a small modern battery in the tool box.

So my question is. Is there a good quality reproduction rear light available for this bike and can you recommend a vendor? I have found 1 or 2 likely candidates online but I would prefer to see if anyone on here can recommend one first because I have been stung in the past with poor quality repro parts.

Also I need a pair of rubber grips that go on the spirals. I have found most other things online but seem to have missed these.

Thanks,

John

[23JDCA 808]

Grips and several styles of lights are on eBay. I have no idea of the quality. Bill in Oregon

[Steve Swan]

I have a brand new Replicant Metals 5051-15-T2, i will sell, has accommodations for stop and tail lights. If you're interested, I'd can look up what i paid for it, would give a bit of a discount to get it off my shelf.

[TechNoir]

I have a brand new Replicant Metals 5051-15-T2, i will sell, has accommodations for stop and tail lights. If you're interested, I'd can look up what i paid for it, would give a bit of a discount to get it off my shelf.

Thanks Steve, PM sent.

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

I have been loosely bolting parts together and trying to work out where the various bits go and also check to see what’s missing. So far very little is missing, just the odd nut or washer or broken screw or bolt.

I have been looking at the footboards and the right hand one has got me wondering. I seem to have an extra bracket that lifts the rear of the footboard up to make it more level. One of the pictures from 1988 shows how the footboard was mounted.



I have looked at pictures on this forum and online of other Harley J's and the right footboard is mounted much like the left and does not have the extra bracket at the rear to lift it up.

Has anyone seen this before or is it a one off modification? I am thinking it is a one off modification but it could be some sort of sidecar related part.

What do you think?

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

I have another question about spokes.

The manual says that both wheels for 1920 have the same length spokes. See here



The rear hub is bigger than the front hub so am I right in thinking that they are laced in different patterns? At the moment I have laced the front wheel as per the rear wheel but it is wrong and I know it will need to come apart because the nipples are not screwed on far enough No big deal, just a couple of hours of my time.

The rear wheel (which was still together when I got the bike unlike the front wheel) has a 4 crossover pattern. The only way to get the same length spokes to fit on the front is to use a 3 crossover pattern. The alternative is to buy longer spokes if I were to use the same pattern on both wheels.

John

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Some new parts arrived this week so I am hoping to make some progress. Unfortunately there are some problems with a couple of the items that came so they have to go back. This hasn’t stopped progress though and I was able to get a couple of hours done today.

I bought some nuts for the missing ones for gearbox mounts but realised that the hex on new nuts is smaller than the hex on the original nuts of the same size. I am guessing that this is a WWII thing. I do know that whitworth fasteners went down a hex size in WWII in an effort to use less steel. I am guessing that American fasteners had the same change for the same reason? So first job was to make a few nuts with the correct hex size.



Then I have been trying to work out how the controls go together.

I know that this rod fits roughly here because I can see the ends of it in some of my 1988 pictures. It is not clear what the rod does though. Is it carb or mag? Logic says to me that its mag?





Also where does the control cable fit. I am assuming that I am missing a fitting that goes where I have labelled it "A"?





Looking at the parts book and also some parts vendor websites I know that I am also missing the "Bell Crank Bracket"
I guess that it goes on the stud marked "C" and the bell crank "B" goes on it. Is this correct? If so then what’s the bracket that I have labelled "D" for?





How does the carb get operated? I am assuming that something goes into the hole that I have marked "E"?




I have these parts.



Number 1. This fits on the magneto, I am assuming that the top end fits on the "Bell Crank"?

Number 2. I believe that this is a Compression Relief Rod. Mine is broken so needs fixing or replacing.

Number 3. I think that this is called a "Carburettor Control Sleeve" However the round pin at the end is bigger than the hole marked "E" on the carb so how does this fit?

I have trawled lots of pictures on the net as well as my own and I am still not exactly clear how everything fits. Does anyone have a couple of pictures of a complete bike with the tank off?

Finally I have a couple of what’s this questions.

Item "4" in the above pictures doesn’t seem to have an obvious home. Is it a J part or a stray?

Also in the next pic there are 2 screws with partly countersunk heads that I am not sure about plus the 8 small screws.



Finally in the next picture I have this small spring that I am not sure about either.




Because the bike came as a basket case I am aware that I have some fasteners missing plus I expect I have a few that dont belong.

Any help is appreciated because I don’t know where there is a similar bike that I could go and look at myself to clear up these small details.

Thanks,

John

[Robert Luland]

John, the carb E thing is the throttle shaft that belongs in that hole. #4 in your picture is 2206-16 Shifter lever stud. Holds your shifter lever to the gas tank. The two misc counter sunk bolts are 3749-16 front fender bolts. I have no idea what the little screws are for. The last picture appears to be an early broken kicker spring. Bob L