1920 Harley Model F

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear John, your hand oil pump cap is 3583-15 and available from Colony for a few dollars. Good idea to keep at least one in the tool box.

[TechNoir]

Thanks for the tip Steve, I have made two that seem to work but I might get one from Colony as well so I can see how they are supposed to look.

John

[TechNoir]

I had some time off from other stuff today so decided to have a tidy up in the shop and then if time permitted have a look at the 20F. Before I did anything I thought I would give it a couple of kicks even though I know it is probably a waste of time.

On the second kick the step starter didn't return and closer inspection revealed a broken spring. Not a big problem to fix and given that I don't really have too much time to tinker with bikes at the moment then not a big issue at all. In fact I am happier it broke now than at a more inconvenient time.

I have ordered a spring, $22 for the spring and £26 for shipping. Its no wonder I have some new repop parts on the shelf that I haven't returned to the vendor! It is usually 2 or 3 weeks before they arrive so I will have to see how busy I am at the time (I am hoping very busy as in the grand scheme that would be good. See earlier posts for why)

The new spring seems to be blued or parkerized but this old one had been nickel plated. I am certain it was plated when the PO had it refurbed in 1989. It is an old spring at least 80 years old and possibly the original one in which case it would be coming up to 100 years old. I do also wonder if hydrogen embrittlement from 1989 played a part though.






John

[exeric]

You got me wondering about hydrogen embrittlement, John, and I found this informative overview. It sounds like plating that spring could have damaged it. The article offered a few suggestions for minimizing the hydrogen problem. Definitely something to keep in mind for plated parts that are subjected to stressful applications.

https://www.imetllc.com/training-art...tlement-steel/

[exeric]

I was also going to mention that you can form another anchor loop in that spring and get a bit more life out of it. If you have time to kill waiting for the new spring; it could be worth a shot.

[TechNoir]

Thanks for the link Eric, I hadn't seen that site before.

I have read a bit about hydrogen embrittlement previously and springs seem to be something that are very prone to breaking after plating unless they are done right. The hydrogen has to be "cooked" out of the part by placing it in an oven immediately after plating for quite a long time. The time is dependent on certain variables such as the area plated and thickness of plating but it is usually several days in the oven rather than just an hour or two.

Unless you are doing the plating yourself then you need to be able to trust the plater to do it properly.

I agree with you that the nickel plate is a likely culprit for the break.

John

P.S. I just saw your post script. Thanks for the suggestion, I didnt think of that and I may well give it a shot.

[RichO]

Eric, When we used to chrome our springers (chopper days) and their springs and other high stress parts the chromer would always put them in the oven. Some guys even did their frames the same way.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear John, going into judging mode, the kicker pedal rubbers were tapered until about 1934.

[TechNoir]

Dear John, going into judging mode, the kicker pedal rubbers were tapered until about 1934.

Thanks for the info on small details which I appreciate. Its the small things like that that help you when someone claims something to be original and also to date anonymous parts at an autojumble.

The rubbers were already fitted when I got the bike so they can stay for now. Once it is running OK I can then turn my attention to the small stuff,

Thanks again.

John

[TechNoir]

Good Morning/Evening/Night to everyone on here. Its been a little while since I posted and seeing as I have just put a post up on the transmission section I thought i would do a quick update on here (even though its not strictly bike related).

Last time I mentioned that I had been unwell and in hospital with some stomach issue and also that we were moving house to somewhere with, amonst other things, better workshop facilities (or at least the potential to have better).

Health wise I am OK, in fact I would go so far as saying that I am 100% or at least as 100% as any fifty something can be. I could do with dropping a few pounds in weight but that's about it. The health issue, after having had tons of tests and two different Consultants seems to have been finally diagnosed as a reaction to NSAID's (Non Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs). In my case it was Ibuprofen although Aspirin and various other, prescription, drugs can do the same. As a fifty something I have a few issues with joint pain and for a few weeks before being taken ill I had been taking a dose at bedtime due to some shoulder pain that was keeping me awake. I wasn't even taking it every night, maybe 5 nights a week for 6 or 7 weeks and only one dose a day but the cumulative effect screwed up my duodenum temporarily.

House wise we were due to move on October 9th but due mainly to the A*** Hole who was supposed to be buying our house and partially due to the English house sale process, it all went wrong only one week before the moving date. It took me a month to calm down and I spent the last two weekends unpacking boxes so I could get to my tools and spares so I am only now back in a place where I can mess about with bikes again. The house will be gong back up for sale in the Spring so I am not sure how much I will get done before it all has to be packed up again but I need my shop in the meantime to maintain my sanity.

Dont get the wrong impression by the above. All is well and life is good. I just could do with having to deal with less idiots.

Back to bike stuff next time.

Thanks for listening.

John

[TechNoir]

Hello Folks, today here in York in the UK the temperature is a balmy zero degrees Celsius / 32 degrees Fahrenheit so I turned on the heater in in my garage and then went back in the house and had a cup of tea while the garage warmed up.

Using the tips from this thread ( https://forum.antiquemotorcycle.org/...ng-Replacement ) I had the gearbox end cover off in no time at all.

With the cover and kicker on the bench I soon had the two apart and then reached for the new spring.

Its clearly marked for 1916 to 1920 twins, both 61" and 74" which should have set alarm bells ringing given that I thought that the 74" twins didnt come out until later, I think 1924? Here it is:





It was only then it became apparent to me that I have the wrong one.






The kick start lever end is OK






But the gearbox end isn't.






I did look at this hole to see if it would fit but it doesn't without modification of the spring which if I were going to do that then I would make it fit the correct way.







Looking at the new ones that are available, the one that I actually need is marked 1921 to 1923.

1920 seems to be a transition year with quite a few changes happening between 1919 and 1921. I am 100% certain that my bike is a 1920 bike, the numbers (including gearbox), the provenance and the rest of the spec all correlate. However my bike was first registered for road use in May 1921 so my guess is that its a late 1920 model and ended up with the 1921 style gearbox cover.

So I will call up Competition Distributing as soon as they open (its 05:30 in South Dakota as I write this) and get the right one on order. My previous comments about this being the worlds most expensive spring must have been prophetic.

Now where is the laughing and crying at the same time emoji?

John

P/S. once I have the right parts I will do an update on the other thread so that others in future will, hopefully, avoid this beartrap.

[Steve Swan]

John, great to hear from you and that you're able to work on the bike a bit.

[TechNoir]

Hi Steve, thanks for the response.

The new spring is on order and I have just received notification that it has been dispatched. Given that its coming up to the holidays then I am expecting a mid January delivery date so watch this space for an update in 3 or 4 weeks time. One thing I noted is that the postage has come down. The last spring cost less than the postage, now the postage has come down so it is at least a (little bit) less than the spring.

John

[TechNoir]

OK so this took longer than expected. The second spring turned up in mid-January but by that time I was engaged in a DIY frenzy so that the house could go back up for sale around about now. That plan has now been paused due to obvious reasons so, earlier today, I got back to the step starter spring.

As promised here is a summary of the job from the start.

First disconnect the clutch operating arm here.



Then, on the other side of the bike remove the foot board and outer chaincase (note, pre '20 bikes don't have an inner case.)





Remove the nuts from the centre of the clutch and remove the operating rod







Remove the 8 nuts holding the gearbox end cover and remove the cover.








John

[TechNoir]

The quadrant is retained by a tab washer.





Once the pedal and case have been separated, remove the old spring.





In the last picture above, note that the spring loop is a tight fit in the groove in the anchor point.

Here are the new springs, One listed as 1916 to 1920 and the other 1921 to 1923. If you remember, my bike is a 1920 but seems to have the 1921 spring anchor arrangement. Note that they are both the same gauge wire and both 9.5 coils.



First, i noted that the new spring is a thicker than the original. This means that the loop on the end wont fit in the groove in the anchor point so I had to grind it a bit thinner.





Of course it was the same at the other end, the hole in the pedal is smaller then the wire gauge of the new spring as well as the notch in the "washer" that the spring seats in.





John