4 speed Sprocket nut torque, Spacer Key, and Shift Fork spacing

[JSB55]

Anybody use a torque spec on the transmission sprocket nut on a 4 speed? (65 FLH, and 65 FL with 3spd/R) Palmer just says "tighten the nut", and the factory manual says "tighten nut securely". One vendor I found that sells the nut aftermarket says to tighten it to 125 ft/lb.

Also, what do you use to measure the spacing on the shifter forks? I can eyeball them, align them with the special tool, and/or by putting the ratchet top in neutral and putting it on the case, but curious how anybody measures .075 or .010. Never seen a feeler gauge that goes past .035.

Final point of curiosity. Mine wouldn't shift into 4th consistently, so I rebuilt the Ratchet Top. Took the sprocket off and found the little L shaped key that locks the Drive Gear to the Spacer wasn't there, so I got one and installed it. Would the absence of that tiny key make 4th gear act up? Seems like it serves a purpose, or wouldn't be called for there.

TIA. Always new details to learn...

[Rubone]

Torque specs are a modern "need" for new owners. In the last 50 years I have never used a torque setting however I have repaired lots of stuff where guys obsessed with torque specs overdid it and broke stuff, including ripping the threads off main drive gears. If it makes you feel better then by all means do it. But there is no official H-D spec.

Simple gauges can be made for checking shift fork position, I use old spokes ground to go/no-go dimensions.

The Key on the inner spacer is to make the spacer rotates with the gear and act upon the seal lip to create the seal. It would have zero effect on 4th gear engagement. Later transmissions did away with it altogether.

[JSB55]

Ah, Rub, my almost neighbor and "go to" info guy.

An old timer once told me that for anything without a torque spec, go til it's snug and starting to resist, than add 1/8th turn.

Shame I threw out all those old spokes, but I just measured some allen wrenches and found two that will likely work. Inspiration = creativity!

Good to know that "key" isn't all that essential, but now I've got one, anyway.

Thanks!

[T. Cotten]

The trick to 'torquing' any fastener to its firm "set", JS,...

Is to make certain there is no give-and-take or flex; Stepping upon the brake won't cut it. The sprocket should be held solid, or you will not feel it creep up to 'firm':

SPKTTORQ.jpg

Then trusting to feel makes sense. 125 ft-lbs is a major grunt.

.....Cotten
PS: The purpose of the key was to drive the spacer within the seal if-and-when the sprocket came loose.

PPS: Feeler gauges stack up to whatever you wish.

PPPS: I think I have a new JIMS gauge tool still in dusty plastic from the Nineties. What's it worth?

[larry]

I used to use a stack of feeler gauges to check side clearance of the shift clutches, but the process was awkward and cumbersome. Now I set them by eye and the result is just as good. However, a spoke ground to a taper sounds like a good idea.

[duffeycycles]

Drill bits come in many sizes for feeler gauges.

[JSB55]

SO ... I get things lined up with the Jim's tool, double check with the lid in neutral, and everything seems good, including measurements as best I can get them. HOWEVER ... putting the lid and trans in 3rd gear, when I take the lid back off, the shift fork is smack up against third gear, but doing the same with both in 4th, when I lift the lid, the shift fork (actually the shift clutch) is a good 16th of an inch or more from full contact with 4th gear. I can slide it in fully by hand, but the shift fork leaves it shy by 1/16th or more.

Given that, and the fact my original problem was that it wouldn't go into 4th, do I shim the fork over, or ignore it and go with the setup only done in neutral, as per the book? Thanks!

[Rubone]

SO ... I get things lined up with the Jim's tool, double check with the lid in neutral, and everything seems good, including measurements as best I can get them. HOWEVER ... putting the lid and trans in 3rd gear, when I take the lid back off, the shift fork is smack up against third gear, but doing the same with both in 4th, when I lift the lid, the shift fork (actually the shift clutch) is a good 16th of an inch or more from full contact with 4th gear. I can slide it in fully by hand, but the shift fork leaves it shy by 1/16th or more.

Given that, and the fact my original problem was that it wouldn't go into 4th, do I shim the fork over, or ignore it and go with the setup only done in neutral, as per the book? Thanks!

Top hat roller in place? Can you post a picture of what you are trying to explain? Remember that it can only go all the way into gear when all is aligned, otherwise the clutch just slams against the gear and can flex the for. The box needs to rotate as it is shifted to get thing settled correctly. Your description is very vague.

[JSB55]

Top hat roller in place? Can you post a picture of what you are trying to explain? Remember that it can only go all the way into gear when all is aligned, otherwise the clutch just slams against the gear and can flex the for. The box needs to rotate as it is shifted to get thing settled correctly. Your description is very vague.

Yup, top hats are there. Tried the test several times with both the old top hats, and new ones, and always the same result. I slide the shifter over, rotate sprocket as necessary to get the clutch fully engaged with 4th gear. The lid (in 4th gear) goes on easily, basically as easily as it does when everything is in neutral. But when I lift the lid off, the shift fork and clutch have moved 1/16 to 1/8th inch back towards 3rd gear.

Testing as above with lid and box in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear, when I take the lid off, the shift fork is exactly where I had it before putting the lid on, which is also the case when I put the box and lid in neutral.

I took photos, but for some reason the forum keeps giving me error messages when I try to upload them. Grrr.

[joe fxs fxr]

Are you using an alignment tool to set up the sliders?

[duffeycycles]

Setup is done in neutral. It is easy to move out of position when in gears.

[JSB55]

THE PLOT THICKENS: Given all the time and money I have invested in this bike, and the fact I hadn't found any obvious cause for it refusing 4th gear, I decided to go the Full Monte and tear down the transmission for inspection/rebuild. There were a lot of wrong parts on the bike when I got it, and tool marks (i.e., butchering) on the fasteners made it obvious someone had been inside the transmission at least once before, but had reused the hardware.

Glad I went that route. Turns out the 3/4 shift clutch was installed backwards, with the "HIGH" marking facing 3rd gear.

[Rubone]

THE PLOT THICKENS: Given all the time and money I have invested in this bike, and the fact I hadn't found any obvious cause for it refusing 4th gear, I decided to go the Full Monte and tear down the transmission for inspection/rebuild. There were a lot of wrong parts on the bike when I got it, and tool marks (i.e., butchering) on the fasteners made it obvious someone had been inside the transmission at least once before, but had reused the hardware.

Glad I went that route. Turns out the 3/4 shift clutch was installed backwards, with the "HIGH" marking facing 3rd gear.

They just thought that meant it was time for another fatty!!

[JSB55]

They just thought that meant it was time for another fatty!!

*LOL* and may have before getting to work...