Atten, Tom Cotton and Tommo

[camsaure]

Good day Sir(s) I am working on a Schebler HX 181. I need to know where to find decent quality parts. Mainly I will need a throttle disc (also need the rounded washer on top) or maybe 2 discs in case during the fitting and modification I wind up producing "high grade scrap" out of one of them. Also need throttle shaft but could possible make what I have work with bushings. Also metering needle, I think the book calls for #00. Is the only differences the lengths due to different diameter bodies?
Now, here is what I am working with; the body appears to have been bored to about 1 3/8 and re sleeved with brass/bronze down to 1 3/16. But they never bored a hole through for the idle speed screw. It still does have the screw. (They must have figured that they had just enough leakage around the throttle disc to make it idle, lol). My thoughts were to use a Sunnen rod/pin hone to bring it back out to 1 1/4 diameter assuming that is actually what it was originally supposed to be. I do know it was supposed to be a 1 1/4 carb. Any and all insight is appreciated. I mainly need to know where to find decent quality parts needed as I am aware that there is some junk out there. You can PM me that info if you wish so as not to start a pi$$ing match, but I would like to know what to avoid. I will also need to make an oversize air valve shaft as that is a bit worn and remember reading about Teflon instead of leather and may go that route.
Thanks in advance, Cam

[Tommo]

I've been away at our big Classic M/C race meeting and just got back, away next week for 20 plus days on my 1927 HD and Chair at the NZ National Vintage M/c Rally so sorry for not replying sooner.
There's a heap of 180's and 181's being done at present and can supply what you want.
New copper cam tracks are being made as we speak so most if not all bits are available to overhaul these particular carbs.
I can't do anything for you until I return home on the 26th February and if I don't respond to any e-mails etc. it's just because I don't have the time at present.
A fit of the guilt's prompted me to reply now.
.

[T. Cotten]

And I'm sorry too, Cam!

I can only offer insights at this time, as health, the weather, and previous committments have me bound.

The original bore of your 1 1/4" Model was 1 3/8".
The odds of obtaining an off-the-shelf disc or radius'd friction disc that will fit are *poor*.
Beware of huge over-sized one-size-fits-none modern shafts.

I have found, painfully, that even the needle should be cut to fit, sucking upon the nozzle to determine its range of closure.
It makes a damaged DLX or Linkert needle worthy again.

For the easy hardware, I relied upon FickauPrototypes@cs.com.
The rest is up to your own resourcefulness.
(I cut my own shaft blanks, and fit them individually to the bodies, and splice them into the original shaft's "tower", with the throttle cam indexed to the same pin hole. Similarly, I fit the airvalve with as much of the original hardware as possible.)

I use PEEK for the airvalve seal, because I have a surplus. I may be able to provide a blank, which you can then mount on a fresh carrier bushing, and lathe-cut to match your fresh-cut seat in the airvalve casting.
(The price of PEEK seems 'volatile': https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/63403810)

There are many ways to skin a cat, but I cut the disc notch while installed, through the idle screw hole, that is blocked upon yours.
Boring and sleeving a carb is always more trouble than its worth; Honing away only the wear is best, as everything must be custom-fit anyway.

Wish I could help, but I must clear what is on my benches already...

....Cotten

[camsaure]

Sir, There is certainly no need to apologize. You should be out enjoying the rewards of your 27 JD in the first place. I know I would. Also the bike has plenty of other work needed before it runs, hope fully this summer some time. Also a sincere thankyou for your reply. I will most likely be in touch later after you get back. And do enjoy your rally. Thanks again. Best regards, Cam

[camsaure]

Sir; Certainly no need for you to apologize either, help from the experts is always appreciated and it really did not take you long to reply either. I wonder why someone sleeved it down in the first place. The rest of the carb does not really look all that bad either. Nickle is thin but probably 75% there. I guess my best bet would be press the sleeve out and hone round and smooth. Actually they appear to have done a rather decent job on the sleeve but no idea why they would of done that. Just wondering is there a reason not to just hone the carrier bushing and make new shaft? Weight maybe? Are new carrier bushings available? A couple other thoughts: any reason that making a pilot to touch up the seat with a valve grinding stone and then making PEEK or Teflon to fit on same angle? About what angle is the throttle plate when closed? I would also guess that you would start with a throttle plate slightly larger diam and the cut the angles on edge in a lathe or how about doing this in a valve reface?grinder machine? Or am I overlooking something here? I think maybe the angle may be different at top and bottom compared to side edges. Again thankyou much for your time as you are certainly busy. Best Regards, Cam

[camsaure]

Tommo, PM sent

[T. Cotten]

Sir; Certainly no need for you to apologize either, help from the experts is always appreciated and it really did not take you long to reply either. I wonder why someone sleeved it down in the first place. The rest of the carb does not really look all that bad either. Nickle is thin but probably 75% there. I guess my best bet would be press the sleeve out and hone round and smooth. Actually they appear to have done a rather decent job on the sleeve but no idea why they would of done that. Just wondering is there a reason not to just hone the carrier bushing and make new shaft? Weight maybe? Are new carrier bushings available? A couple other thoughts: any reason that making a pilot to touch up the seat with a valve grinding stone and then making PEEK or Teflon to fit on same angle? About what angle is the throttle plate when closed? I would also guess that you would start with a throttle plate slightly larger diam and the cut the angles on edge in a lathe or how about doing this in a valve reface?grinder machine? Or am I overlooking something here? I think maybe the angle may be different at top and bottom compared to side edges. Again thankyou much for your time as you are certainly busy. Best Regards, Cam

I'm no expert, Cam!

Just a student.

Without holding it in my hand, I cannot say if its worth removing the sleeve or not.
But you definitely want it round.

Honing the carrier bushing is an option, if it is worn concentric. Weight concern would primarily be at the valve itself. It all gets 'weighed' for spring tension anyway.
Since I cut my own, I know of no modern carriers on the market that I would trust.

I recut the seat with NEWAY cutters piloted off of the adjustor screw holes, either 45° or 60°.
The airvalve itself I cut as shown, after assembled upon the rod stock before boring and parting off.

I find most discs are about 10°, but it varies how they cross the idle screw.

More when I can,

....Cotten

[camsaure]

Thanks, Appreciated the replies, gives me something to go on.

[camsaure]

I have a couple more questions Tom. First off I would like to purchase enough Peek from you to make an air valve. Second: I pressed the sleeve out of my carb and the bore should clean up with very little material needing to be removed. I can see if I look hard enough the wear marks where the throttle plate closed against the bore, but cannot feel it with my finger. I figured out how to make a new throttle plate, but there is no brass rounded washer for the top of the throttle disc. I bet Peek would work great for that also, but is that part really needed? I would assume it is for thrust only, but would help slow wear in the top of the bore. That would be a bit more difficult to make. But it seems Linkerts work without this type of setup. Thanks, Cam

[camsaure]

I also forgot to ask above. Have you any of the HX horseshoe floats?

[T. Cotten]

I can cut you a PEEK blank, Cam,

But its pricey.

If you are going this far, why not hone away the last bit of wear?
You might not feel it, but it will be daylight when you cut a disc. And daylight is hard enough to cure.
*Ideally*, it should only be at the end of the idle screw. (Figured out how to cut the disc's notch?)

I feel the domed thrust washer is essential. And its the hardest part to cut.
(Linkerts and DLXs have a thrust collar at the bottom of the shaft.)
Although PEEK is great for many things, if you are going to the trouble to cut one, why not use brass?
It takes solder a whole lot better.

And yes, I cut 'horseshoes' of course!

.....Cotten
PS: I just lathe-cut the manifold flanges on two HXs this morning, and now hope to get them honed before it snows,.. again.

[camsaure]

Tom, Thank for the reply, LOL, I guess pricey is the name of the game in this hobby. You can PM me prices for blank and horseshoe if you like or post here your choice. Pretty sure I will break a sweat machining the air valve. Yes, I definitely plan to hone the bore on my Sunnen rod hone. It should not take much at all which is good. As for the domed thrust washer I will try and make one, I had thought they just floated but understand they will be soldered. Any idea on the diameter of the widest part, I have nothing to go by on that. Thanks again, Cam

[T. Cotten]

All of my Scheb floats are $50, Cam!

I'll have to review my scrap for 1.4"X.190" candidates before I can quote PEEK.
(But it will be cheaper than https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/...earchterm=PEEK)!
You could use teflon, too...

Cutting airvalve seals are elementary, compared to the evil thrust washers.
I do them in one set-up, and part them off.
(It makes it easier to roll-peen the nut, too.)

Original thrust washers vary greatly, from ~1/2" to ~9/16", but I'm not afraid to put a little one in a big carb if its a sweet fit.
The disc need a flat cut too, and that's when solder helps avoid more daylight.

Got a radius-cutting tool post?
Or cheat with CNC?

....Cotten

[Steve Swan]

Cam, i sent you a pm.

[camsaure]

Tom, Float price is certainly reasonable, put me down for one. And let me know on part for airvalve. I have no access to a CNC, I only have a few "period correct" old lathes. Also no radius cutter but can look for one or maybe improvise something. I will obtain enough brass to allow for the inevitable production of some "high grade scrap" until I get one right. Thanks, Cam