Battery lessons?

[Jim]

Ok, I'm from the old school that I always bought batteries that either had acid in them (car battery), OR one that came with a bottle of acid. Now... I see so many choices like all the different brands and "types" of toothpaste at the grocery store and basically, they all do the same thing. I just bought a Cycle Electric 12V generator for my 1946 Chief to convert from 6V to 12V and at some point in the very near future I will need a new battery. I see things like Lead Acid (I know what acid batteries are), AGM, Sealed Batteries, Maintenance Free, Flooded, GEL and Lithium. I looked up what AGM means and from what I see is that they can last longer than an Acid Battery. I also saw that the AGM and Lithium batteries can't be used with a regular battery charger? Hmmm... What "type" of new batteries are being used with the 12V Cycle Electric Generator? I read that you should NOT use a Lithium Battery with an original 6V Autolite Generator so I wasn't sure if that still is "the rule" with a 12V CE Generator. Since it is a kick start, do I need to think about CCA?? I ride with just the basic lights on. I do have spot lights, but haven't used them due to constraints of the Autolite Gen.

Please NOTE... I'm not savvy on too deep of a "electrical" conversation... I usually get that lost UHHH what? look.

Lastly my battery shell is one that has an open bottom and made of fiberglass. Looks like a real Indian battery though. I don't know who sold it originally. The inside dimensions of the shell are 6 1/4 in L. X 3 5/8 in. W X 6 in. H

Originally on my '46 Chief, I had been using a B38-6A Acid Battery when I had the original Autolite 6V generator. A little bit of the battery stuck out the bottom of my box, but it was hardly noticeable. Those batteries worked GREAT and lasted for 3-5 years! I still use the B38-6A batteries in my Harley VLs.

[T. Cotten]

There's two kinds of CE regulators, Jim!

Please note the low-voltage models are designed for batteries contained in a hot oil tank.

My experience with cheap acid batteries was good.

....Cotten
PS: Pushing an expensive battery until it dies for bragging rights risks frying an armature that costs more. A fresh cheapo battery every spring proved cost effective.

[gharper]

Jim, yes it's all confusing!

You are right, no Lithium batteries on a 3 brush generator! Lithium batteries are great, they can take a very heavy charge rate and discharge rate (amperage) as long as the input voltage stays below a certain level, usually about 7.2 volts absolute maximum. 3 brush generators run a very high voltage, 8 + volts easily. If you have a well regulated charging system that will keep the max battery voltage below this level, they are great for motorcycle use, I've been using them for many years on 20's and 30's bikes with 3 brush generators converted to 2 brush and an electronic regulator. Because of the critical max input voltage you must use the battery charger made by the battery maker. I learned the hard way other battery chargers give a high output voltage and will pretty quickly trash a Lithium battery, even the tiny little maintenance trickle chargers.

For your application, consider the largest AGM battery you can fit into your case. Then buy a Battery Tender and keep it connected when not in use. Don't settle for one of the cheapy auto zone or walmart "trickle chargers", they give a high output voltage and will eventually overcharge the battery. My best example is on my 84 FXRT, I was getting 2 years or so out of a lead acid battery, with a trickle charger on. This bike had a motor driven clock and radio memory, so a constant low draw. In addition, the 84 and 85 Evo's still used a shovelhead starter which struggled with the higher compression, plus the FX had a small battery under the seat. I finally got a good sealed lead acid battery, which I think is also referred to as an AGM battery. It had more cranking power and didn't need a vent tube. I bought a Battery Tender (brand name) and kept it plugged in any time I wasn't riding it, or on a road trip. 10 years later I was planning a long road trip and was concerned about the battery. I took it out, went to the battery shop and asked them to test it. It tested at 100% load capacity. I explained the situation and they said don't replace it! I ran it another 4 years before selling it. So, 14 years on a 12 volt AGM battery with a Battery Tender. That pretty much sells it for me. The battery tender is now on my 13 Road Glide, still going strong.....

You could also use a Shorai Lithium battery, many sizes to fit the case, mount in any position. If you do, get the charger with it, even though it's a pain in the ass to connect. One additional advantage of Lithium Ion batteries is the fact that they can sit for very long periods of time without use and loose very little charge. I've had some sit for a year plus with no use and no charger. voltage is right up there, but will take a heavy charge when first started, but then settles down after running a bit.

So I guess I prefer the Shoria batteries on the old kick start bikes, a sealed AGM on the modern bike, though I've never tried a Shorai on the new bikes with electric start.

https://shoraipower.com/batteries-c41

[ChiefTwoKicks]

I use a 12V Oddysey PC535 AGM glass mat battery. I use this battery in three of my Chief's. This battery has a shelf life of 6-7yrs. I've had one of these batteries since 2011. The others still in service date back to 2013 and 1017. I started using this battery back in 1995 with my skirted Chief, that battery has the highest reserve amp hrs (8-12reserve hrs) available on the market.
Its not cheap... cost me about $135 back in 2012. Thats eleven yrs ago !!

The battery fits inside the Starklite fiberglass batt box... with a little trimming. Well... slightly more than just a little trimming. Totally sealed, this battery will work mounted in any fashion, even upside down !! I've run these batteries down to completely dead... then recharged them and they are just like new.

Almost as much reserve storage as a car battery, you could forget, and leave your ignition switch on all night, and still have enough battery left to start your bike in the morning. This is an amazing battery... just one mans opinion !! Good Luck, which ever you choose..

C2k

[tfburke3]

I have been buying Dekas AGM for my 12v chief and harley flht.
They make the oem batteries for harley in york pa and are a good price.
I was getting them at lowes but it looks like they dont carry anymore.
For my chiefs a Deka ETX14 fits in the starklite case.
Tom

[PaulCDF]

Jim;
I am running a YUASA YT12B-BS with my Cycle Electric 12 Volt generator in my 46. Fits in my faux shell (my shell has a bottom with a removeable top.
I was thinking about a lithium battery and called Cycle Electric was advised the standard IN-5000 was NOT compatible with lithium batteries (or maybe I should say lithium batteries are not compatible with the IN-5000.). I have been happy with the YT12B-BS but perhaps I should re-think this and consider the battery a yearly "consumable/disposable" as Cotten suggests.

[Jim]

All VERY GOOD Information on Batteries! I even understood it all! Thanks!! I'll have to do some shopping now that I know what to look for and I understand better too. Sounds like I need to choose whether to use an AGM OR a Lead Acid battery. Cost "for now" may be a factor.

[Jarek]

In my opinion, gel batteries work well at 12 V. For a 6 V installation, I would recommend a lead-acid battery.
It doesn't matter if it's a car or a lawnmower.
I don't know English well enough to describe why.

[dukekleman]

Jim,
I use sealed lead acid batteries. They can be mounted inside a battery box in any position. They also have the correct charge rate for the system. Convention, AGM, Gel and lithium batteries all have different charge rates. I've had exceptional experiences with the sealed lead acid batteries in 6v, 12v systems regardless of the generator and regulator design.

Duke

[pan620]

Please explain the difference in sealed lead acid batteries and AGM.

[Jim]

Thanks for the info Jarek and Duke! Appreciated!!

[Jim]

Please explain the difference in sealed lead acid batteries and AGM.

With my "research" on batteries since I need to buy a new one, I found this page recently to see the difference between Lead Acid and AGM. Have a look, it's easy to follow.

https://unboundsolar.com/blog/lead-a...ery-comparison

[PRG]

Howdy chaps,

Use Shorei’s in 7 of my machines, some going 12 years without need for replacement, maintain incredible stand by voltage in storage without need for trickle charging and seemingly impervious to vibration or heat as HD horseshoe tanks subject. Important delineation between these lithium Iron batteries vs AGM and Lead Acid (LA). These are “starter” batteries, essentially lightening in a bottle. With extremely low internal resistance they have the highest discharge rate and thus ideal for starting modern high compression engines. Conversely the assumption once started an alternator/electronic regulator, superior in output over the rev range compared to a generator will quickly rake over recharging them. Therefore their amp hour rating does not compare to the traditional “storage” type battery you’d find in an AGM or an LA. The BSO6’s depicted here are “equivalency” rated at 18AH, but, flip them over and they are labeled at only 6AH by traditional measuring methods. Batteries act as a capacitor in your charging system, the more capacity, the less duty cycling and more “head room” you have for approaching depth of discharge, therefore I run two in parallel.

This is the Indian setup, requires shaving the insides of a typical gutted LA


This is my Knucklehead setup using an Erdos box with the side cutout.