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I am finally wiring a 1933 VL with a bar and shield ammeter. I have everything wired as the diagram shows and I've double and triple checked that all the wires are on the correct posts and to and from the correct components. However, when I turn either switch on, the dash lamp lights up, and every post is hot, reading about 6.2 volts EXCEPT the posts on the ammeter, both of which are dead. Does that mean I'm backward on the ammeter? I have seen some guys have indicated the Harley schematic being incorrect? Everything at my circuit breaker is also hot, so I figured I have a ground problem somewhere. My wiring kit also included a 4706-29 "Frame to Switch Box Ground Wire" that's 16" long. What dash post does this belong to, and does this terminate to the 3344-25 frame clip?
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I believe with a bar and shield ammeter your 4706-29 wire would go to the left ammeter post, and yes it would terminate at 3344-25.Originally posted by skidshoe View Post
From Shop Dope 130
"...we are now shunting the frame head fittings out of the ground circuit by running a separate wire directly from grounded terminal of ammeter (left side terminal) to motorcycle frame. Ground wire is attached to frame with the screw that secures control coil clamp on left side of frame head. Part number of ground wire - 4706-29."Last edited by Peter Cooke; 02-04-2022, 08:35 PM. -
Peter's comment from Shop Dope refers to the 1935/6 white ammeter which (later?) has the terminals reversed compared with the bar and shield type, and it is this which makes the 1934-36 VL Owners Handbook wiring diagram incorrect. For 1933 the ground is on the left ammeter terminal, and you can see that the dash base has different sized holes to accommodate this. The left ammeter terminal is connected to the dash base, then through this to the forks and ground. For extra security, run your 4706-29 wire from the same left ammeter terminal to the 3344-25 control coil clip on the top left frame tube. For the white ammeter, the left hand dash base hole needs filing out, and insulators or rubber tubing added to isolate what is now the live ammeter terminal from the base.Comment
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I checked the back of my ammeter. It is a reproduction and does not show a positive or negative, but I wired it just as it was before, which is how the early diagram shows. I added the 4706-29 ground wire to the left terminal and secured it to 3344-25 frame clip and everything worked. The bike fired on the second kick! The ammeter shows a slight discharge and, testing with a multimeter I showed the battery voltage at 6.1 volts. After slightly adjusting the generator, my multimeter showed 6.3 volts at the battery side of the cutout and battery, but the ammeter still showing slight discharge, even when I increased the motor rpm. This my first and only VL, what do you normally see your ammeters doing while idling or at increased rpm?Comment
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The idea of the 3-brush Model 32E generator and relay is to hold the ammeter around 1-2 amp charging rate whether the lights are off or on. Check the zero position of the ammeter, then see what happens to it with the lights on and the engine not running, then lights on and engine running. You should also see a big discharge on the ammeter when testing the horn with the engine off. By the way, nice bike, 1933 Models are the least produced since 1910/11 and hard to find.Comment
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I switched the wires terminated at the ammeter. The yellow ground from the battery is now on the left and my ammeter seems to reflect what my multimeter shows, and also what Steve has explained. On the 32E, I read alot of guys who convert to the 2 brush system for more reliable charge and fewer adjustments to the generator. What is your preference and thought behind the 3 brush vs. 2 brush setup Steve?Comment
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The 32E generator ran for 25 years and is a reliable unit with decent spares availability. I like original so would stick with it. Problems are usually from overloading with electrical accessories, or fitting thin 12 volt wiring. The electronic relays are probably an improvement on the electro-mechanical ones, where you can see on the ammeter when they are making and breaking.Comment
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Yes Peter, that's exactly like mine, silver face with the "Weston Electrical" wording on it. When I say on the left, it would be the left looking at the dash from the top just as the wiring diagrams show, not looking at the back of the ammeter. I can't see there would be a problem switching poles since the current is passing through the ammeter in a direct current. Do you think this could be a problem, or a false reading? I have ridden the bike around a few times for roughly 20 minutes at a time(because it's cold in Colorado!) and my battery still shows nearly 6.2 volts.Comment
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I'm no electrical expert but I don't think it'd cause a problem. As you say the current is passing through directly. Maybe the windings are done in the opposite direction or something like that in the repop ammeters. Same as the issue with some of the repop ignition coils where the positive terminal is now nearest the back of the bike rather than the front because the internal coils are wound in the opposite direction to OEM.
Hopefully someone who knows for certain will jump in.Last edited by Peter Cooke; 02-14-2022, 03:18 AM.Comment
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I took the bike on an hour long test ride yesterday, ran the lights for roughly 20 minutes, and my battery maintained a charge of 6.2 volts. A rewarding moment!Comment
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Excellent!Comment
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I agree with Steve on the 32 E generator. It was a great setup really, and worked fine IF you follow a couple rules:
1. Stay with stock lighting! Changing the original lighting load will alter the charge rate with the lights on.
2. Adjust the 3rd brush properly for a steady charge into the battery, lights on or off.
3. Use a large lead acid battery.
The problems come if any of these 3 rules are not followed. Using a small, modern sealed dry cell, lithium iron or other battery can become very problematic. The 3 brush system has absolutely no voltage regulation in the system. Normal operation would show a voltage at the battery in order of 7-8 volts, more if the charge rate is too high on long rides. The design relied on a large, vented lead acid battery to act as a sponge if you will and absorb the high voltage output, dissipating it in the form of heat and gas. If one maintained the water level in the battery and followed the 3 rules above, all was well. Most guys don't like the vented battery because it can make a mess of a beautiful restoration. The thought then is to use a nice modern sealed battery of some kind. Most modern sealed batteries don't like high voltage inputs, above about 7-7.2 volts max. so they will overheat and fail. I've seen an expensive lithium ion battery explode when used with a 3 brush generator after running for a couple hours.
So, if you can follow the original rules of design, all is well. If for some reason you can't, then I would suggest converting to a 2 brush generator and installing a voltage regulator. This can all be done in such a way that no one can tell from the outside and nothing is permanently altered.
GeneComment
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Curious if you purchased the harness from us, Cimarron Cycle Works (Blarneyrubble104 on eBay). To the best of my knowledge, we are the only ones adding the 16" dash ground wire to the frame in VL kits as well as the timer ground wire as they have never been in the Linsday/CMS kits and are essential to the bike running right. I assume they likely aren't included because those two grounds have never shown up on H-D diagrams much like the coil ground on 1929 DL models that doesn't show up either. Would love a bit of feedback if that was our kit.Originally posted by skidshoe View PostComment
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"...we are the only ones adding the 16" dash ground wire to the frame in VL kits as well as the timer ground wire as they have never been in the Linsday/CMS kits..."
I'm pretty sure my loom came from Lindsay via 'Watertown girl' (or something like that) on Ebay. It has the 16" dash ground wire but I can't remember re the timer ground wire. I'm away with work so can't double check till mid March.Comment
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