Two post Delco Remy relay problem

[1970 XLCH]

I have a coil & points type relay on my 34 VLD . After a ride the other day , I checked the lights & everything was dead . The battery (6 years old ) would not take a charge . Bought a new one . On installing it I got sparks from the wire when connecting to the neg. pole . To get to the point , I checked the relay & the points were closed so there was continuity between the poles . I pulled the points open , no continuity . My question is , Is there any maintenance to be done . Or can I just watch the points ( always wondering when will things go south !!! ) . Or is it time for a solid state unit ? Thank you , Mike

[Schorsch]

Hi Mike, I recommend you , convert your generator into a 2 brush solution (wiring change see HD shop dope # 418) and install a 6 Volt Regulator unit instead any cut-out relay!
With such a solution, your power supply will be much better, especially at low motor rpm's , equal lights on or off.
I developed a Regulator unit, which can be installed into your original Relay housing or you can have a nice 2-post replica chassis and use your original cover. It's an embedded
solution. If you are interested send me a PM... George

[1970 XLCH]

Hi George , Thank you for the response . I don't really want to change generators right now and seeing that this isn't a cannonball bike ( I ride it fewer than 500 miles a year ) . I think I will go for a solid state relay , like I have had in my '48 EL for years . Your product sounds really nice . If I decide to go the 2 brush route I will contact you . Thanks again , Mike

[1970 XLCH]

An update . I just put a new solid state relay on & I still get sparks at the neg. terminal ( I have a spade fuse on the ground side & it sparks when I try to put the fuse in , put a tester where the fuse goes & I get 6.2 volts ) .I know this means a short somewhere . I have tested everything I can get at without tearing the bike apart . The bike is pretty fresh ( 1500 miles on total rebuild & rewire ) .
Just wondering if anyone out there has any suggestions ??

[HDSmitty]

Perhaps a sloppy switch in the dash. I know the ones in my 36 are sometimes iffy as to when there's a connection or not. I wired my front fender light into the same circuit so that I wouldn't inadvertently leave the ignition energized. If the light's on...so's the ignition. Hope this helps..........Smitty

[Lyle Manheimer]

When you plug the fuse in you are getting sparks. This indicates there is a load on the circuit. The fuse is not blowing, therefore it may not be a short circuit if it is fused properly. Not being familiar with VLD circuitry I would guess the ignition switch controls all electrical functions, so I would guess you have a faulty ignition switch. Like Smitty said I would start there. If you are not seeing any lights flicker when you plug in the fuse, chances are it is either the ignition circuit or the charging circuit portion of the switch. You have already identified a problem with the charging circuit, so that may be the place to start on the ignition switch.

[1970 XLCH]

Thank you guys for your responses . Have been busy with other stuff & not able to get to the VL . Will let you know what happens . Thanks , Mike

[1970 XLCH]

Finally got to work on it today . I pulled the dash & all is well with the switches . I've checked everything I can think of with a test light & multi tester , and couldn't find a thing wrong. I put the fuse in & fired the bike , it started right up & ran fine . I only ran it for a couple of minutes . The fuse I have is a spade type & is connected to the neg. pole on the battery. This is what has me baffled.,
When I run a test light ( grounded on one end & all switches off ) to the NEGATIVE pole WITHOUT THE FUSE IN it lights ( completing the circuit ) . THAT'S JUST NOT RIGHT !!!! .
Any thoughts ??

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Mike, there was a change in 1935 when the white face ammeter was introduced. This is upside down compared with the bar and shield type, so the ground is on the other side and the wiring diagram in the later Riders Handbook is incorrect. Harley reported headlight bulbs blowing, diagnosed it as a poor ground through the headstock, and recommended running a separate ground wire from the ammeter to the 3344-25 control coil clip on the top left of the frame. I'd check all your wiring again before spending money.

[Lyle Manheimer]

Mike, If I am understanding you correctly, you are grounding one end of the test light to the motorcycle frame and the other end to the battery negative pole. The motorcycle being a 1930's vintage would have a positive ground. Your light therefore would be indicating open circuit voltage and should light. If you take a voltmeter and substitute for your light it will read battery voltage. So if I am correct about your connection method all is well. If you are connecting the light to the "dead" side of the fuse one would think the light should not light. If it does light you are indeed indicating a complete circuit. I will see if I can find a wiring diagram for a VLD on line.

[Peter Cooke]

Here's a couple of VL wiring diagrams. As Steve mentioned above, you can see in the later one that the ammeter is upside down compared to the earlier one but the wiring layout hasn't changed.
I believe the wiring should be as per the sketch for the later Delco ammeter.

31 VL Wiring.jpg
35 VL Wiring.jpg
VL Ammeter Wiring.jpg

[1970 XLCH]

I found the culprit , It was how the relay was wired . I took off the solid state relay & replaced it with the points type relay & the sparking fuse stopped ! The problem was on the points type relay the right terminal is marked " bat" , which is the opposite of the wiring diagram . Not thinking anything about it , I wired the solid state relay the same way which allows current to flow thru , thus the sparking at the neg. terminal on the battery . When I wired the solid state relay according to the wiring diagram all was well !!
It's always something stupid ( meaning ME !! ) > Thanks for everyone's help on this !

[Lyle Manheimer]

Well Mike there certainly was a load on the circuit. Always suspect what you have just done to be the culprit.

[skidshoe]

Glad I saw this post. I am finally wiring a 1933 VL with a bar and shield ammeter. I have everything wired as the diagram shows and I've double and triple checked that all the wires are on the correct posts and to and from the correct components. However, when I turn either switch on, the dash lamp lights up, and every post is hot, reading about 6.2 volts EXCEPT the posts on the ammeter, both of which are dead. Does that mean I'm backward on the ammeter as you guys have indicated the schematic being incorrect? Everything at my circuit breaker is also hot, so I figured I have a ground problem somewhere. My wiring kit also included a 4706-29 "Frame to Switch Box Ground Wire" that's 16" long. What dash post does this belong to, and is this the ground wire you're saying goes to the 3344-25 frame clip?