Member from Germany - interested in Emblem, Schebler "H", and other.

[crescent]

Hi everybody.
My name is Manfred living here close to Munich.
I've restored an Excelsior twin 1912, Neracar, HD 1923 w. sidecar.
My special interest goes to early Schebler carbs which I restore since some time.

My current project is an Emblem (approx. 1912, single in a twin Frame).

In particular I'm looking for information (Salesbrochures, Manuals, detailed fotographs) for the bike as well as the Heitger carb.

Regards
Manfred

HD '23 , Exc. , Nera.jpg DSCI0009.jpg

[T. Cotten]

Greetings and welcome, Manfred!

How are you measuring the radiused washers on the Schebler HX when you cut them?

They give me fits.

....Cotten

[DCoul]

Wow! Very nice bikes! Good luck with your collecting.

[crescent]

Hello Cotton , thank you for your reply.

When I started with restoring I cutted the friction disc to the ventory diameter.
Now after some experiments I'm not using these washers anymore.
The wear at the top of the throttle disc is next to nothing.
as I realised on the carb of my Excelsior after some 2000 mls.

Manfred

[exeric]

Welcome, Manfred. Very nice motorcycles. In regards to the Heitger carburetor, I have the glass bowl version that I'll use on my Flying Merkel. I've looked for literature on the Heitger for many years and have found nothing at all. I believe the Heitger was rare in it's day. In comparing it to a similar vintage Schebler, the Heitger is overly, and unnecessarily complex. The Heitger was obviously a high quality carburetor, and very well made, but it didn't need to be, and I'm sure the added costs of producing them got passed on to the consumer. Of course, 90% of the motorcycles in those days were equipped with Scheblers and everyone knew how to tune them, and spare parts were cheap, and plentiful. That's why Indian, and Harley-Davidson stopped making their own carbs, and went to Schebler.

Oh yeah; I make the Shebler radiused washer out of PEEK. And Tom, I kind of half-assed it and just made it like a 'belleville' washer so it would offer some resistance on the throttle shaft.

[T. Cotten]

Manfred and Eric!

I don't think my people would let me get away with that.
If I can't do it right, I won't do it at all.

....Cotten

[T. Cotten]

PS: Manfred!

When you did bother to cut the radiused friction washer, how did you accurately measure the radius while it was still in the lathe?
It always takes me several tries to cut it right.

Thanks in advance..

....Cotten

[exeric]

I know you're a stickler for accuracy, Tom, but I do agree with Manfred that the radiused washer serves no purpose. In looking at 5 untampered HX carbs, I see no wear from the washer in the barrel; but I do see worn out washers and glaring air gaps. Why the washers are worn out, and the barrels are good is a puzzler.

[T. Cotten]

Good grief Eric!

If it isn't obvious to you that the 'friction' washer prevents the shaft and disc from eating its way upward, you just haven't had many in your hands.
I have even encountered where they have worn their own 'dome' into the bore (attached).

Folks can cobble their own any way they want.
But I have responsibility not only to my customers, but to the next generation.

....Cotten
PS: It should provide "friction" in name only. If it rubs with resistance, its wrong.

[exeric]

I just see the washer in your picture, and it looks like someone soldered it in. I've examined more than a few, Tom; but I know you'll do what you want, and that's what make the world interesting

[T. Cotten]

Eric,

It is loose, but sunken into the roof of the bore.

Do you really think that Schebler would have devised and produced the washer if there wasn't a purpose?

The early models didn't have one, but the 'tower' supporting the shaft had a bezel that was crimped over into a groove in the shaft to retain it. They obviously needed an improvement.
(I would post more pics, but the international meet looms over me like a storm, and I am packing up. And answering off-the-wall posts can be irritating, although I want those with an open mind and appreciation for History to have access when I can.)

....Cotten

[exeric]

I would never second guess the engineering at Schebler; particularly something as odd as that radiused washer. You've seen a lot more of these than most anyone here, Tom, so your observations are valuable. I can only go by the 20 or so I've messed with, and that is an invalid sampling to draw even a heuristic opinion about. I do recall something a metallurgist told me years ago about one of the principals of early watch making. He said that there is an interesting phenomenon about the jewel bearings in high end watches. He said the jewel bearing will wear out before the metal shaft that turns in it. The reason is; microscopic shards of the jewel will break off and imbed themselves in the soft metal of the shaft, thus turning the metal shaft into a jewel encrusted grinder. . .Who knows, but I do know coffee is the key to long B.S. encrusted stories

[T. Cotten]

Similarly, Eric,..

Soft aluminum tappet blocks will wear out their harder tappets, with little more than carbon embedded.
PEEK is even softer. I use it for many applications, but rarely for a moving part.

I do use it for the airvalve, as many folks use teflon, which is a great deal softer. Leather would be great if the machines were in constant service, and constantly moistened with fuel.

The reason I obsess about the radiused washer is because there needs to be minimal air leakage past the disc assembly when closed, or the idle screw will need to be turned in to where it nearly hits the disc, or bottoms out at its head. For the same reason, I obsess with the precise fit of the disc notch to the idle screw barrel.

I need to raise my rates.

....Cotten
PS: At Davenport tomorrow, Folks,
I shall have a case of PEEK scraps to pick through at $.25 a gram.
(Compare to MSC Industrial's price of $.61 a gram, four foot at time for the 2" I must start with: https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/...EK&hdrsrh=true)
And compare to ebay!

[swedishbigx]

I have 3 Scheblers one H-model,one DLX 10 and one DLX 12.My excelsior 1920 big X had a DLX 10 but it is said to be to small for it. I have not found any stamped number on the H- carburettor so I do not know what model is it.The only thing I have seen is a V stamped on the body. How can i determine if it is a HX 162 ?
d3400 bild H förgasare.jpg