Hike in dues to Canadian members is unacceptable.

[jwl]

Yes, I understand it would cost more to Edmonton vrs California. However, it would cost more again to Germany, France or Sweden wouldn't it?. That is my beef. The AMCA just bluntly rated Canada just like it was located in Europe or something like that. My Indian 4 club dues are the same for Canada and USA. My Laughing Indian dues are the same for Canada and USA. More for overseas like it autta be. I think 3 or 4 bucks over USA rates is generaouse and fair. I dont expect anything for nothing but I dont want to subsidize mailing overseas...US needs our oil, our timber, our Hydro Electric Power and also our Water. We just want to be a member, keep some of your mags if you cant afford to mail them, I dont care because I never read them cover to cover anyway. If mailing is an issue, sell the extra mags separately.

Why don't you do a little research on Canadian post costs. Ross just wrote that it costs as much to ship from US to Canada as it does from US to Europe. If that is true, then you may want to send your gripe to Canadian Post officials and not to the AMCA. I agree that rising costs are a pain in the backside but you may be directing your frustration at the wrong people.

[hogchild71]

Allen
You are correct that there are not 825 Canadian AMCA members. My National roster shows both active and cancelled members, and I forgot to subtract the cancelled ones. The actual count of Canadian members is closer to 400. My apologies to all for my mistake.
Fred.

[AFJ]

Allen
You are correct that there are not 825 Canadian AMCA members. My National roster shows both active and cancelled members, and I forgot to subtract the cancelled ones. The actual count of Canadian members is closer to 400. My apologies to all for my mistake.
Fred.

Fred,
No need to apologize. It seems the mail-out/membership house report is the cause of confusion. Long ago, when I was Treasurer for the CVMG, I used to track the membership remittances against the mail-out numbers each month to see that we were sending out all the magazines members had paid for so I did that check just as a matter of interest.
I note that a British motorcycle monthly air mailed to Canada is about $30 (C) extra for postage or about $2.50 (C) extra per issue. This is the similar to the extra $2.50 (US) per issue of The Antique Motorcycle. I do note that other magazines I get in Canada from both Canadian sources and other countries almost invariably come in a clear plastic wrapper. The Antique Motorcycle comes in a white composite envelope and perhaps comes at a premium postal cost for that reason?

In Canada, if a magazine mails 1,000 or more copies per issue it can get a preferred mailing rate if the copies are pre-sorted to certain postal sorting station requirements by the mail-out house. And this rate allows the magazine to go unwrapped. These factors bring the mailing cost per magazine down substantially.

Allan Johnson

[hogchild71]

Allen
Your numbers are right on, Canada has 304 active members as of this morning. I know this thread is about cost of shipping The Antique Motorcycle to foreign members but thought folks would like to see a member count by Country. So here goes; Australia-110, Austria-6, Belgium-11, Bermuda-1, Brazil-1, Canada-304, Cyprus-1, Czech Rep.-2, Denmark-8, Estonia-1, Finland-9, France-12, Germany-52, Iceland-1, Indonesia-1, Ireland-3, Israel-1, Italy-17, Japan-8, Latvia-1, Netherlands-55, New Zealand-24, Norway-12, Oman-1, Poland-5, Singapore-2, S. Africa-2, Spain-2, Sweden-31, Switzerland-18, Thailand-2, UAR-1, UK-52, and USA-10,553
Be aware that these numbers are accurate today but may change slightly by the day, as new and renewing memberships arrive and others allow their AMCA membership[ to lapse.
Best regards to all, Fred.

[BoschZEV]

Ireland-3,

Hey, this means I personally know 67% of the members in an entire country!

[partshunt]

With those figures, I did some math regarding mailing cost to Canada. Since there is a fifteen dollar increase to Canadian members, I multiplied 15 bucks times 304 members. That extra cost came to $4560 dollars. I then divided the Canadian cost of $4.560 dollars by USA and Canadain members totaling just over 11,800 members and if we all paid an extra 38 cents on top of the US dues of 40 dollars we would all break even with a 38 cent increase overall.. In other words make the dues could be $41.00 to both USA and Canada membership, the AMCA would be ahead of the game by over 5000 bucks. The Indian Four club and the Laughing Indian club does it, why not hte AMCA?...Check my math and theory, let me know....I cant see anybody sqwaking over such a small trivial increase, your thoughts???

[BoschZEV]

we would all break even with a 38 cent increase overall.

I'm not sure I like this suggestion. After all, 38 cents would buy me nearly one-tenth of a venti latte at Starbucks. On the other hand, instead of that extra 1/10 dose of caffeine keeping me up at night, being bothered that I'm subsidizing Canadians by that amount might do just as well.

But, before going down this road, there really is the question of fairness to be considered. Since postage costs to, say, Australia where there are 110 members may not be all that different than to Canada, what about subsidizing them as well? They, too, have seen a significant drop in the exchange rate over the past two years. The British Pound (52 members) also has seen a significant drop over the past two years. The Euro has been mixed, but when considering subsidies, fair is fair.

[AFJ]

With those figures, I did some math regarding mailing cost to Canada. Since there is a fifteen dollar increase to Canadian members, I multiplied 15 bucks times 304 members. That extra cost came to $4560 dollars. I then divided the Canadian cost of $4.560 dollars by USA and Canadain members totaling just over 11,800 members and if we all paid an extra 38 cents on top of the US dues of 40 dollars we would all break even with a 38 cent increase overall.. In other words make the dues could be $41.00 to both USA and Canada membership, the AMCA would be ahead of the game by over 5000 bucks. The Indian Four club and the Laughing Indian club does it, why not hte AMCA?...Check my math and theory, let me know....I cant see anybody sqwaking over such a small trivial increase, your thoughts???

Dear Joe Drociuk from Nanaimo,

Your math is bad because any attempt to require US members to subsidize the postal costs to 304 Canadian AMCA members would, in fairness, require subsidization of the 453 International AMCA members. Therefore, the amount needed to be raised by spreading the increased postal costs to outside-of-USA-mailing would be $11,355 (US). Since total AMCA membership is presently 11,310, this could be - mostly - raised by a $1.00 (US) increase in the membership fee to every member. But it is bad economic and political theory.

Such a practice of "cross-subsidization" does not treat all AMCA members equally as to benefits received for fees paid. Equality is, if I recall correctly, a fundamental principle of the American system of government that most American citizens support. It is also a principle in our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The US postal system requires more money to ship the AMCA magazine every couple of months to me in Canada. $15.00 (US). The Canadian dollar has recently been weaker than the US one - so there is an extra penalty there as well. But it's only money.

My suggestion is to suck it up and pay the extra - or don't renew your membership - if you think "It's not worth it."

Your continual, bleating rant only makes it look as if we Canadians are a bunch of cheapskates who want others to pay for our fun - which I hope we are not. It also tends to confirm the old saying that "The cheapest thing on an Antique motorcycle is the owner."

Allan Johnson

[Tom Wilcock]

The AMCA is the by far the best motorcycle magazine I receive and is worth any extra not only for the newsletter but for all the other benefits of belonging to the AMCA. Tom Wilcock

[partshunt]

Hey Tom, dont be oiling em Easterners too much, talk like that could bring another 57% hike in the next year or two!!....LOL.

[TechNoir]

Re: Hike in dues to Canadian members is unacceptable.

I have been dipping into this thread as it has evolved and have decided to make comment as I see it from a UK member.

I am a member of the Antique Motorcycle Club of America and also the Vintage Motor Cycle Club. One club is run from the USA and one from the UK. I pay international fees for the AMCA and domestic fees for the VMCC. They are both large clubs, over 11,000 in the AMCA and over 17,000 in the VMCC.

In both clubs i seem to see a desire by all those involved, including the people running the club, to include as many people as possible in our hobby. To that end I believe that any variance in fees between domestic and international members is directly related to increased costs, mainly postage. The VMCC has 3 fees, UK, Europe and "Rest of the World" with the cheapest being UK and Rest of the World the highest.

Much like USA and Canada much of Europe’s countries border on each other but I do know that, for example, postage within France is cheaper than postage from France to Spain even though they have a land border. The cost difference is not due to geography but instead due to politics and economics well beyond the influence of the VMCC or AMCA.

I am happy to pay international fees for the AMCA and UK fees for the VMCC. I am not sure that I would be 100% happy at a flat rate fee for everyone for the VMCC.

The fee structure reflects economic reality.

[partshunt]

Yes, I agree and I have too have been a faithful paid up member since the mid eighty's, BUT, until this year with that outrageous 57 percent hike. I think I will Just buy into it every second odd year. It is a beautiful magazine but mostly 95 percent is irrelevant to me. Even tho some get on here and play politics, I still think my increase of 38 cents over the forty bucks is a very reasonable formula and just charge 41 dollars yearly worldwide. Probably it would even increase membership and more ad exposure for the sellers. The other clubs do it. Forget subsidies,just about everything we pay for is subsidizing some thing or some one any way. 95 percent of the members could care less. There is always one loud one in the crowd that pops off. I knew that starting this thread...

[partshunt]

Dear Joe Drociuk from Nanaimo,

Your math is bad because any attempt to require US members to subsidize the postal costs to 304 Canadian AMCA members would, in fairness, require subsidization of the 453 International AMCA members. Therefore, the amount needed to be raised by spreading the increased postal costs to outside-of-USA-mailing would be $11,355 (US). Since total AMCA membership is presently 11,310, this could be - mostly - raised by a $1.00 (US) increase in the membership fee to every member. But it is bad economic and political theory.

Such a practice of "cross-subsidization" does not treat all AMCA members equally as to benefits received for fees paid. Equality is, if I recall correctly, a fundamental principle of the American system of government that most American citizens support. It is also a principle in our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The US postal system requires more money to ship the AMCA magazine every couple of months to me in Canada. $15.00 (US). The Canadian dollar has recently been weaker than the US one - so there is an extra penalty there as well. But it's only money.

My suggestion is to suck it up and pay the extra - or don't renew your membership - if you think "It's not worth it."

Your continual, bleating rant only makes it look as if we Canadians are a bunch of cheapskates who want others to pay for our fun - which I hope we are not. It also tends to confirm the old saying that "The cheapest thing on an Antique motorcycle is the owner."

Allan Johnson

Ha Ha Ha, You sound like a politian. Preach but dance around the issue of a 57% hike as somehow reasonable. I dont care anymore, its not the extra cost so much but it is the idea of such a hike and no apologies. Drop it. You running for council of something?