??? Heathers Leather - Clover SC

[Chris Haynes]

I made a statement that a vendor is selling people and incorrect product. A product that will cost them points during judging. As usual Gerry jumps in spouting untrue statements about the subject. Perhaps Gerry would like to let all of you know what was said during his conversation with Michael at Worsham Castle Leather who is now doing a Seat for him. Michael has all the H-D seat blueprints and specifications. He also has all of the H-D seat information from Milwaukee Saddle Company who made the seats for H-D. After he learned he was wrong Gerry came back and offered a half sincere apology then continued on to bash me as he usually does. I have learned long ago that Gerry has one delight in his life and that is trying to denigrate me. But as a sign at my place of employment said, "No man can make himself look good by trying to make another man look bad.".
This all started years ago when Gerry first appeared on this board. I mentioned that I thought it was ironic that he was posting here after his employment with Buzz had been terminated. Since then he has taken every opportunity to belittle me. He Will never change so there is no use trying to reason with him. All I ask it that you understand where he is coming from and what his motives are.

[T. Cotten]

Such acrimony.

And I wanted to post a stiffs list!
Even if none who replied are on it,
there would be squealing, no doubt.

But at least members of the industry would benefit from a warning.

....Cotten

[Robert Luland]

YA! HO! Mama Bean’s got me jacked up on some over the counter crud to make feel better and I blown my nose 250 times today and its round 52!

[Sargehere]

Glad to oblige! That left-coaster made his own bed long ago, and it's beyond my means to denigrate him further than he has himself. Chris is Chris. And he can't ever, ever admit he's wrong about everything. I mean, anything. The old info that he's come out with for the umpteenth time about seat thread color and specific leather men is at least 4 years old, IIRC. But, by his own admission, he's convinced no one changes their habits or learns anything. Perhaps that's more the result of him looking in the mirror for so long through _ _it-colored glasses. Wipe off your lenses and read post #14 to this thread, Chris!

I love Chris to pieces; I really do! He's honest and hard-working, and more than forthcoming with what he knows (and then some, sometimes!)
But I've found it's not necessary, and generally depressing to everyone, to drag out every negative thing you know about someone at every opportunity, basically, just so you can add another post to whatever is being discussed.

I've known Chris for more than twenty years and he probably knows more about his chosen specialty, 36 ELs, than anyone else on the planet, but he's slow to modify his opinions, once formed. You can't reason with a steel trap.

Oh, and it's time out, end of round, for me at least. I'm off to take my grandsons to The Magic Kingdom for the evening.

[Robert Luland]

Ok! At this point in the day, life has gone from bad to batted. Mama Bean in all of her caring wisdom went to cut my eye brows (She get away with this because I’m a sick sitting target), when she spotted a nose hair. She just managed to snip my nose. There is blood everywhere. The problem is with a cold, every time I blow my nose the bleeding it starts again. So much for me, let’s get on with round #54

[Chris Haynes]

[QUOTE=Sargehere;124771]Glad to oblige! That left-coaster made his own bed long ago, and it's beyond my means to denigrate him further than he has himself. Chris is Chris. And he can't ever, ever admit he's wrong about everything. I mean, anything. The old info that he's come out with for the umpteenth time about seat thread color and specific leather men is at least 4 years old, IIRC. But, by his own admission, he's convinced no one changes their habits or learns anything. Perhaps that's more the result of him looking in the mirror for so long through _ _it-colored glasses. Wipe off your lenses and read post #14 to this thread, Chris!

How come you can never post about me without using some snide remark, name calling, or a slur about about my person or location?
What does #14 have to do with the fact that H-D never used white thread. This is the same information that Michael gave you on the phone a few days ago when you called him about the seat he is doing for you. By the way, If Heathers Leather's is so great how come you sent your seat to Worsham Castle?
The posts about seat thread color may be four years old. I don't know or care. Give it up Gerry. I am right and you are not. The H-D blueprints and specifications, MILSCO data, and factory photos prove it. It you can document that H-D used white thread I would love to see it. But you can't.
I base my comments on things that I have researched and studied. If someone asks me a question that I don't know the answer to I will research it. There have been many times that you have been wrong and you refuse to admit it. This is just one of them. If you want me to bring up instances I will be happy to. Although I prefer to let sleeping dogs lie.

[Sargehere]

I made a statement that a vendor is selling people and (sic) incorrect product...

AND:

Sorry to disagree with you Gerry. I will not hold my tongue when something that can harm someone's cash is being discussed. I will post warnings about any vendor who is doing things wrong.

However, as was pointed out in post #14 by Sportster Jerry:

...he (Wayne Hagler) asked if I wanted white or black thread, so they can do it either way.

You owe Wayne Hagler, and the AMCA members who look to you for accurate information an apology, Chris Haynes, for disseminating dated, impertinent (read: "presumptuous, as to persons or their actions; insolently rude; uncivil"), untrue information deleterious to one of our members, Chris.

Or have you adopted the Bill Clinton defense, Chris: "It depends upon what your definition of is, is?" That's a lot of "IS's, Chris. If they'd been "was's" they would only be dragging up history, which they are. But "history" is not as savory as stating that the incorrect practices are continuing to the present day, and not nearly as interesting to post, is it?

In your case, "is," means not only the present tense, at the present time, but if something ever occurred in the past, is that it? That also makes up-to-date fact-checking for information reliability a breeze, doesn't it, Chris?

I was not attacking you personally, Chris, but was warning you all along in this thread that the information you were trotting out, "for the umpteenth time," was out-of-date, and particularly tiring to hear again, knowing it to be inaccurate, Chris:

You speak boldly in present tense, Chris. Like this is something you discovered recently and, honestly, how current is your information? Exactly how recently have you discussed your issue with Wayne, in particular?

Of course, you also owe me an apology for calling me a liar for telling you that your (mis-)information was out-of-date:

As usual Gerry jumps in spouting untrue statements about the subject.

Nothing untrue was said by me. That's two apologies for the one thread, Mr. Haynes.

[Sargehere]

Only you, in all of my experience, seem to read the term "left coaster" as an insult, Chris. Are you ashamed to be a Californian/Pacific Coaster? If that is the case, I apologize profusely for that; it never occurred to me in my experience that being from the area that appears on the left side of a U.S. map was a particularly shameful personal predicament, Chris. My condolences.

Your point (getting back to the point), that I called you on was not to say that "Harley-Davidson never used white thread." You made a personal attack on a vendor's integrity when you said in post #10:

One big thing wrond (sic) is he uses white thread on his H-D seats.

as if he was an ignoramus, refusing to use black thread in his saddle restorations to this day. I called you on that: I called it piling-on, with mis-information (or a lie, pure and simple).

You apparently can't see the nose in front of your face, Haynes. You were called on telling people that Wayne Hagler will steer them wrong, and uses only white thread (in the present tense: "is.") based on your four-year-old information. You misdirected it in your mind to be all about the old "white thread/black thread" discussion over again. I pity a mind that works like that. Be a man, once. Apologize.

Besides that, NOT EVERYONE IS SHOOTING FOR A HUNNERT-POINTER, CHRIS! The significance you deny to afford the author of Post #14 is that he informed everyone, even you, that Wayne calls and asks his customers their preference, in both seat color and whether he's to use black or white thread, when he receives a new assignment. That "is" his policy. I don't know how recent that is, but that is what IS, Mr. Haynes. As his customer, your choice is up to you, as everything related to anything as personal as someone's bike must always be. Vendors can't be mind readers, Chris. You, on the other hand, spout four-year-out-dated misinformation as absolutes, like it's gospel truth.

By the way, If Heathers Leather's is so great how come you sent your seat to Worsham Castle?

Oh, and why did I give this last seat to Mike and not Wayne? For one thing, I've gotten seat(s) before from Wayne, and they've been outstanding (it was a Hagler buddy seat, for instance, that I was very pleased with, that I reluctantly traded to a man for the original 42WLC tandem I sent to Mike to recover, AAMOF). But (1) I've never had a Worsham Castle seat, and (2) Mike has a splendid reputation for dealing with challenges, and I just want to see what Mike Paquette will do with this "snub-nosed" 1942 WLC Tandem/XA solo seat. Maybe that answers your childish, off-topic question, Chris? (Misdirection again? "Like a sly magician! Watch his hands! Watch his hands!")

I have no personal affinity for Wayne Hagler as a leather-monger, beyond being satisfied with all of my dealings with him to date, Chris, and HATING to see you barge into this thread with misinformation, attempting to further smear a working craftsman's reputation. My part in this conversation was never particularly to defend him out of "loyalty," but to try, once again, to cure you of your stubborn refusal to insure that you are aware of current reality before shooting your mouth off, Chris.

You see, I knew coming in that if you specified a particular color thread to Wayne, he'd use it; something you apparently either didn't know or refused to believe, with all of your ill-considered 'IS's" in this thread, which were primary my complaint against you. Go 'head, re-read the thread.

As usual, you mis-construed my remarks to you as personal attacks and only made light of the gist of my complaint: that your information was out-of-date when you said it.

The posts about seat thread color may be four years old. I don't know or care. Give it up Gerry. I am right and you are not.

What we have here is someone sticking to his guns on a sunken ship. I called you for insulting Wayne the leather man, and you go into the white thread/black thread rigamarole. You insist to the present that you don't care that you said: "

One big thing wrond (sic) is he uses white thread on his H-D seats.

I also didn't know that my having once been editor of American Iron Magazine (1991) barred me from, 17 years later, posting to Buzz's forum, "for life" (Also, that is where the exchange referred to by you occurred, not this one, like you, once again confused, mis-stated). I know I didn't ask your permission to join Buzz's forum, unkind sir. I just didn't know I had to. Good night.

[Chuck#1848]

Sooooo...............hows the cold doing Bob.....any better??

[Robert Luland]

I'm cured!

[Chris Haynes]

Gerry,
This is my last word on white thread as it has definitely been proven that white is only correct on a white seat. Now feel free to make up any flowery response you choose. Once again I urge you to tell this board what Michael at Worsham Castle told you recently.

[Sargehere]

Thank God for that! You already did tell this board all about Mike's information. Or do you need the reminder? He recounted to me what told you before he called me and we had a nice chat. much of it about you. I am sorry, if command of the English language is still difficult for you, but if you put one word in front of another, Chris, you'll understand my meanings.

Now, apologize to Wayne Hagler for dragging your superfluous "white thread/black thread" into this and besmirching his hard work with your out-dated "IS's." Or, even at your advanced age, Chris, are you still not man enough to apologize for being wrong?

[frichie68]

After following the spitting contest for several days I had to go back and RE-read the original post. It looks like a legitimate complaint was made, even confirmed by other folks. Then a couple possible solutions were offered. Seems like it should have ended there. Now.....I don't know what I'd do without the entertainment!
Have you guys ever met in person?
Just wonderin'.
Rich

[Sargehere]

Yeah, we have. I picked up him and his dear, late OL at Orlando one year when they flew into Daytona Bike Week and we went to dinner. I've seen him occasionally since then.

We even appear together in the pic of the Friday get-together of forum posters taken at Davenport this year.

That's me with my hand up. Chris is reaching his left arm to the railing.

We don't really hate each other (at least I don't) but I just call him out when he steps over the line, casting a wide net and accusing people of doing things that they don't really do.

[silentgreyfello]

Wayne from Heather's Leathers ripped off my friend by taking his OEM non-vented pan and sending him a repro pan when he recovered it. Guy is a schmuck that needs his arse kicked. Avoid this guy is my recommendation.