??? Heathers Leather - Clover SC

[harleytoprock]

I guess every vender has its good and bad moments. I had Wayne do a full pan solo Indian saddle for me about 8 years ago and I was pleased. I also believe that saddle guys are not always good with all saddle styles. Because of the different styles, different techniques and experience is needed. So a saddle guy that does superb work on one style may look like an amature on another style.

Chris: Did Harley use brown or black stiching? Could you post a factory saddle photo from your marvelous collection showing dark stiching? Thanks!

[Chris Haynes]

Chris: Did Harley use brown or black stiching? Could you post a factory saddle photo from your marvelous collection showing dark stiching? Thanks!

What year would you like to see?

[T. Cotten]

Wow this forum is great for bashing vendors without them here to reciprocate.

Where can vendors start listing 'stiffs' and irrational customers?

The AMCA should support hostilities in both directions, dontcha think?

....Cotten

[harleytoprock]

Chris, How about a seat photo from the mid 30's?

[Chris Haynes]

Chris, How about a seat photo from the mid 30's?

Here is a seat from a late production 1936 EL. Most photos show straight on side views but this one give a little better prospective.

I just got off the phone with Michael Pauquette at Worsham Castle Leather. Michael has been doing H-D seat research for years so he can write the ultimate seat bible. He has all the engineering drawings from H-D's seat maker Milwaukee Saddle Company. He has been allowed into the H-D archives to do research on original bikes, photos and factory blueprints that contain seat specifications. Although he was surprised when he saw a few Hummers in the archives that appeared to have white thread on the seats close inspection showed it was black thread that had faded under the florescent lighting. He confirmed that all the stitching was black or dark brown. The only exceptions were the neutral thread used on WLA's and white stitching was used on white seats.

[Sargehere]

Gerry,
If you can show me any Knuck or Pan ERA factory photograph of a seat with white stiching I will gladly retract my warning about his seats.

I followed that spitball fight on this board some years ago, Chris, and I've recently spoken to M. Paquette and others, and you won the fight, then. The facts were that the dark cotton thread used back-in-the-day routinely got bleached out in normal service, so looked white after a short time, anyway, and the old-time leather seat recoverors didn't pay as close attention to those details as we do today. Also, it seems that bad habits have gotten handed-down from one generation to the next, in some cases.

Today, if you specify the thread color you want on your saddle, I don't see any of this generation of leather wizards giving you the customer a hard time. You have to know what to ask for.

But dredging up a historical argument (what? three, four years old?) just to pile on the ball carrier is bad form, Chris even in this scrum. If you have to make a comment to participate in the discussion, Chris, let it be something positive, and relevant to today, is all I'm asking. You made your point years ago. I knew that, but I just didn't want to hear it all dragged out of the basement dungeon again, just to help to further this smear job on someone who works hard, day-in-and-day-out, to feed our shared old bike obsession!

[Chris Haynes]

I followed that spitball fight on this board some years ago, Chris, and I've recently spoken to M. Paquette and others, and you won the fight, then. The facts were that the dark cotton thread used back-in-the-day routinely got bleached out in normal service, so looked white after a short time, anyway, and the old-time leather seat recoverors didn't pay as close attention to those details as we do today. Also, it seems that bad habits have gotten handed-down from one generation to the next, in some cases.

Today, if you specify the thread color you want on your saddle, I don't see any of this generation of leather wizards giving you the customer a hard time. You have to know what to ask for.

But dredging up a historical argument (what? three, four years old?) just to pile on the ball carrier is bad form, Chris even in this scrum. If you have to make a comment to participate in the discussion, Chris, let it be something positive, and relevant to today, is all I'm asking. You made your point years ago. I knew that, but I just didn't want to hear it all dragged out of the basement dungeon again, just to help to further this smear job on someone who works hard, day-in-and-day-out, to feed our shared old bike obsession!

Sorry to disagree with you Gerry. I will not hold my tongue when something that can harm someones cash is being discussed. I will post warnings about any vendor who is doing things wrong. I know I appreciate it when someone saves me from using the wrong vendor. I just wish someone would have warned me about the places I took my RV for service.

[Sargehere]

You speak boldly in present tense, Chris. Like this is something you discovered recently and Honestly, how current is you information? Exactly how recently have you discussed your issue with Wayne, in particular? I've known you before to carry on with a pet rant years after-the-facts were fresh. Like this one.

And, was it not another saddle man entirely, a second-generation one from another state who insisted on stamping his work, with whom you had your original go-round? Painting all saddle-mongers with the same somewhat-wide brush, Chris? You do have a way of abrading one's sensibilities by your rough manner, Mr. Haynes. A lot of people's sensibilities, and a long record of it, over time. NOT something to be particularly proud of.

[harleytoprock]

I don't see Chris as doing anything wrong. He is willing to share his knowledge and help us. I appreciate his time and willingnest to assist. I also like when old topics do surface from time to time. Its a good mental reinforcement and new things are sometimes learned as well. I don't think his words are too strong, after all we are not the 4H club. If you can't handle his wordage, then don't read his posts.

[Sargehere]

Ha ha ha ha! Well, I'm not surprised. Even Adolf Hitler had his defenders. After all, he left an enduring legacy; he brought us the modern rocketry that put a man on the moon, and the Volkswagen beetle!

Chris has been good for pissing people off for far longer than the twenty years I've known him. But the repetitious, lordly pronouncements he's been known to make become outdated with the passage of time, because they're not revised. Old information becomes obsolete, but for something to say, gets trotted out again and "piled on" at every opportunity. You can get that from a record player.

[Sargehere]

Oh, and we're just a bunch of old men with nothing better to do, or we wouldn't be hanging out on the internet 24 hours a day grousing. But there's no need to drag up every complaint ever voiced about someone just given the opportunity. Wayne hagler works hard for his living, as do dozens of other good leather-mongers. It's the "piling on" that shows bad taste, no manners.

[indianut]

But comparing fellow forum members to Adolph Hitler shows good taste! I gotta tell you Sarge, you RANT right up there with the Best of 'em!

[Robert Luland]

Now Indiannut, just calm down. I’m home sick and having a fantastic time watching these two go at it for the ump-teenth time. The only down thing is that they take a breather in the afternoon. Please don’t do anything that might have a dramatic impact on their lives. Bob L

[Sargehere]

But comparing fellow forum members to Adolph Hitler shows good taste! I gotta tell you Sarge, you RANT right up there with the Best of 'em!

I expected that someone would probably make that lazy comparison when I wrote it! Heh! Comparison of his contemporary popularity has nothing to do with the rest of A.H.'s horrendous legacy, but it takes certain intelligent discernment to understand that.

The point was that there are people out there to like everyone, and everyone has good and bad features that can be pointed out. Pointing out only the worst in someone, over-and-over like a broken record, at each opportunity as it presents itself, also is in bad taste. And I can taste just as bad as the worst of um.

[fillibuster]

Now Indiannut, just calm down. I’m home sick and having a fantastic time watching these two go at it for the ump-teenth time. The only down thing is that they take a breather in the afternoon. Please don’t do anything that might have a dramatic impact on their lives. Bob L

yeah, when Cotten and Sarge are on the same page yagotta know the entertainment is thinning out!! (just kidding, fellers!)

Good business manners take precious time, and some are more generous with that time than others. Some customers need a little "hand-holding", some need brevity, some just need a different vendor. Some vendors just need different CUSSOMERS!

and sometimes the buyer needs to be the salesman, in manner.