HEILMANS SADDLES- never again!

[DEWGARINC]

Has anyone had a problem with them? I have used Howard in the past, and got very nice work! Recently have not been able to talk to Howard always Larry. I asked Larry to evaluate all the parts and let me know if anything else was needed or wrong. He replyed I was all set then 5 or 6 weeks later it was a different story with wrong parts, bad parts , mail him another $40.00 dollars and a paragragh of his whining about how he could make more money on the street playing guitar to keep this short after $450. plus dollars in total including postage parts and insurance - got my troxel seat back and it is terrible! Pull marks around all the rivets, what appears to be hammer marks across the back- above and below the troxel eagle are punch marks -the patented logo not even close to being centered. I called to complain and Larry hung up on me- not much of a business man, I would have to guess he did the work not Howard! I will post some pictures Thanks Dewey

[Paquette]

I do not wish to take advantage of bad situations with other vendors, but I do wish to add my remarks. Seats, saddlebags, and other " handmade accessories" never came from the factory in pristine condition. Leather is leather and often has brands, scuff marks, and other imperfections. Often vendors that have not done the research, fail to use the correct rivets, rivet finishes, leather embossing, creasing, dye colors, etc., for any given year. I do not mean this post to an any way to take away from what other vendors offer, it seems that has been done already. I will suggest , however, if you are that unhappy, please visit my website www.worshamcastle.com. I have done the research and know what is or is not correct---Michael

[LarryHeil]

The other side of the story

Howard did make this saddle. He has made hundreds of Troxel No.1 (what Dewwy sent) saddles. I had to talk my father into continuing to make this saddle many times because of all the problems he had with damaged, rusted, and wrong homemade parts.
We were trying to help Dewey take a bad set of parts and make a workable saddle from them.

[jmanjeff]

I do not wish to take advantage of bad situations with other vendors,

Michael your remarks are good but you should not of plugged your company that is taking advantage of bad situation and not good
just my 2 cents

[LarryHeil]

Please get things corect

Dewey only paid Saddles by Heilman $355 for our work and return shipping ($19.80). Not $450. I do not know what he had to pay to send it to us or have two parts remade that were incorrect.

[LarryHeil]

Final explaination

A bit more of my side of the unfortunate customer relations occurrence:

After Dewey called and would not let me ask questions about what specifically he was upset about, I
put down the phone and figured I might be able to talk with him after he cooled down. I then had to go and
pick up my wife. When I got back I found a message on my answering machine from Dewey (still sounding
very mad) that said he was going to post a very bad report on the AMCA forum. At this point I thought that
there was no way to discuss this saddle with him and I was upset that he would not even give me the chance to
discuss his problem. ( I have feelings too, and after making such an effort to turn his very poor condition
saddle hardware into something that was usable, I was hurt that he did not appreciate the effort that my
father and I had given to this not usual for us project.)We normally do leather work only, doing all this metal

work was something that we are not well equiped for and only did this since Dewy had pleaded with us to take

on the metal work. So much for trying to do something special for a customer.

[Paps]

I don't view Michaels' comment as a plug. All he did was offer another option. I and almost everyone on this forum, know the top quality craftsman he is. 90% of his reply was about material problems encountered with old parts. In my opinion, his reply was more of a benefit of the doubt responce. Paps

[John Webber]

Heilmen Sdddles

I had recommended Heilmen Saddles to Dewey to restore the saddle for his 1913 Harley. Howard had done a Brooks saddle for me for a 1909 Indian and it was perfect. I could not asked for a better job.
Dewey does quality restorations, he does not cut corners and his bikes show this. I wish I was able to do that quality of work.he will do things over and over until they are right before mounting a part on one of his bikes.
I was asked by Dewey to come down and look at his new saddle and tell him what I thought.
I would not have believed it was a Heilmen Saddle very sloppy workemenship
all the rivits were surrounded by hammer marks. Logo stamping on the top of saddle was crooked and out of place and there were punch marks left on the sides that I assume were used to line up the side logo stamping.
I would not have accepted this saddle and I would not use it on a restoration.
I am sure he would have lost points in judging.
Dewey will send this saddle out again and pay again to have it done right.
With the price that people charge to do this type of work and the amount of time they take. I think they need to be held accountable. and do it again if necessary we are striving for quality examples of early motorcycles and they are not many 1913 Harleys out there

[Barry]

2 Cents worth

Just my 2 cents worth, but I to thought Michaels comments were a plug.

[Paquette]

Paps--Thank you for the support. I did not mean my post to be a "plug" for my business as I am booked 5 months in orders, and believe that 99.9% of the folks on this forum know what I do for a living. As for Mr. Porter, if you are the same Barry Porter I delt with years ago about a 1940 deluxe solo may I say this. You asked me to make this seat, from a photograph in a book that I had to purchase, before I really knew what was or was not correct, before I had done the research required in my craft. I made you a seat, you were not happy, and I never charged you for the seat and paid for the shipping both ways. Customer service does not get any better. --I was just trying to give options for those that are unhappy with the vendors they have delt with. I thought that this forum was about honesty and offering opportunities. Guess I was mistaken----

[jpbingham]

Heilmans Saddles

Interesting comments - I will never deal with Heilman's.

Why.....

I received a very rude condescending letter, returned with my seat pan, minus shipping funds from my $400.00 money order deposit, actions absolutely uncalled for. I was expecting a finished seat!

To this day I am still puzzled to what evoked such an unprofessional response…

I have scanned the letter but decided not to post, giving the Heilman's a chance to reply to this posting....if they feel warranted.

Basically the given reasons for the return of my untouched seat pan was that I am "perfectionist" and I would NOT be satisfied with their final product, as I would be a very “hard person to please”, that “leather has natural faults”. Very odd comments given my correspondence.

All I asked was for a choice of thread samples and leather to ensure that it matched my frame paintwork – sounds reasonable to me and not unexpected.

Now if I am going spending good money, I expect my requests to be meet, that people work together to get the item finished to a level of achievable satisfaction and that expectations are met.

As for "perfectionists", we in the antique/vintage/veteran motorcycle hobby strive to be perfectionists, to restore and replicate our machines of yesterday, to what they were in that by-gone era.

Meanwhile, I found an alternative person who does amazing work, who provided input and suggestions to give me a prefect seat for my Shaw Auto cycle. Thumbs up on an excellent job well done. Their details are below:

Chunk and Jo at the Saddleshop:

Saddleshop

20 Harris Circle

Edgewater, FL 32141

Phone: 386-690-3797
Email: chucknjo@saddlerestoration.com

They get my business!
I’ll give them a personal recommendation and reference if required.
I’ll post a few pictures of their work these will speak for themselves.

Sorry Heilman's rude behavior does not get my business.

[Lonnie]

Satisfied

Speaking from my own personal experience, I will relay the following comments:

1> The fellow doing the restoration of my '41 EL repeatedly insisted that the saddle be re-covered by Heilman's. I had seen a number of saddles for pre-war knuckleheads that Heilman had re-covered for him and I did as instructed. I was told to specify the tan leather and black rivets. The pan was in excellent condition and we had it powdercoated.

2> I sent the pan to Heilman's as requested and with those instructions. I received a telephone call from Larry and we discussed the rivets and leather color choice. Larry mentioned that there was some "back-and-forth" in the Harley community about the exact shade of the tan and we both noted that there is not in existence a virgin leather item from that era that has not weathered or aged, so it boiled down to satisfying my specifications.

3> As we agreed, Larry sent me a letter containing two samples of leather material, marked accordingly. I replied back to him, specifying the tan as noted in the sample.

4> I received my seat, well-packed. The leather choice matched the sample sent, black rivets were used and the workmanship was quite nice.

5> In short, I am a satisfied customer of Heilman's.

This is not in any way meant to disparage Dewey's comments as he certainly has legitimate complaints that should be resolved to both Larry's and Dewey's satisifaction. I also realize that Dewey's saddle is more complicated to re-do. However, based on my experience with my saddle, I would have no problem recommending his work.

I have also seen Michael's (Worsham Castle) leatherwork, most recently on Saturday, and it is extremely nice. (Michael - on Rory's saddlebags and luggage rack leather box for his '47 UL).

[LarryHeil]

This happened almost a year ago

Sorry that I can not find Mr. Bingham's letter that came with his saddle. This saddle came to me about a year ago. My letter to him was dated 8/27/07.
He was demanding that I send him leather samples and thread samples. I use only white thread, as was used on the original saddles. I offer black and one color of brown leather. I can not do color matching of leather.
Each piece of leather takes the brown dye a little differently, so even if I came up with a dye formulation that looked good on a sample of leather there is a good chance that it would be a little different color on the finished piece.
Mr Bingham's tone in his letter made me think that this was one of those customers who expect some type of perfection. Leather is a natural material which has grain, some slight marks, some flesh folding, and a bit of color variation when dyed. Most of my customers accept this and even like it since it makes the saddle look like it is made of leather, not plastic.I felt it was better to return Mr. Bingham's saddle rather than atempt to make some thing that he would not be satisfied with.

[Chris Haynes]

[QUOTE=LarryHeil;69379]Sorry that I can not find Mr. Bingham's letter that came with his saddle. This saddle came to me about a year ago. My letter to him was dated 8/27/07.
He was demanding that I send him leather samples and thread samples. I use only white thread, as was used on the original saddles. I offer black and one color of brown leather. I can not do color matching of leather.


I'll polish your boots in the middle of main street if you can show me any documentation that Harley-Davidson, Milwaukee Saddle Company or Messinger ever used white thread on any Harley-Davidson saddle.