Antique Motorcycle Wheel Restoration

[JTR249]

I promised to post the results of my 1949 Indian Vertical Scout wheel restoration when I was able.
Buchanan Spoke and Rim blasted and plated (possibly through New Year Metals) each rim and after including the tubes and tires from Starklite, they had my wheels fitted and finished in no time. The company usually blasts, coats and repairs hubs, though when we spoke several months ago, they had so much work that there wasn't time. I think they still look perfect the way they are.
Ken and his staff were fine business people; informative, knowledgeable and helpful to speak to about the process. I have never had wheels restored before and learned much about what is actually involved.
Thanks, Ken. Here's the shout-out results I promised to post.
Excellent.

-JR
36450

[PaulCDF]

Agree I have had positive experience with Ken and his team also.

[pisten-bully]

Looks great JR! Not fair to judge during the time of Covid, but how long was the lead time?

[JTR249]

I think everything took about a month. One thing I liked was their shipping methods. I always joke with people I buy or sell parts with because I'm terrible at packaging. AMCA members who have had wheels restored already know this, but I didn't realize they make wheel boxes with recessed foam to cushion the parts on return to customers. And the good thing is, if you have other future sets, the boxes can be re-used to ship them back to the company. Check the labels and remove any bar codes of course.
I read an Indian Motorcycle Illustrated article written by Mike Tomas of Kiwi Indian before I collected the parts. He says reproduction spokes are always the best way to go if strength and longevity for a restoration is desired. I have original spokes I could have sent, though I wanted a strong build in the end that I can rely on every day. Last summer I spent a lot of time on the porch with a small, crescent wrench, a wire brush and 3 in one oil. Eventually I will send the originals off to restore and hopefully straighten them. Anyone know of a company that does that? I'd like to know.

thanks.
-JR

[moritz]

I have 1913 Emblem, wheels appear to be solid but spokes are degraded (one missing) to the point of being unsafe.
intent is to conserve what I have. can new spokes be patina to look as if they were original. Hubs appear to be good so just new rubber and spokes should do it.
any recommendations?

[JTR249]

There are two things anyone can do in this situation. First; you can keep the originals to be true to the original parts, send them to a company that can straighten and re-coat them, however, even the best of these companies might tell you they cannot guarantee the strength of a spoke after the process has been completed. The issue is the metal and not the restoration quality. These people usually do fine work in restoring the spokes, though the older metals are not as strong as today's reproduction spokes. Second, the improved metal quality of a reproduction spoke guarantees longevity and safety. Mike Tomas of Kiwi Indian authored an article many years ago published in Indian Illustrated about this very subject. He advocates using reproduction spokes because of their strength.
If you plan on just showing the bike at meets or events, you can go the original, restored spoke route. I plan on doing this with the bikes I will not ride as much since most of the parts are original. The bike I plan on riding more than those (in the pictures above) I had Buchanan install a kit made for the bike of reproduction spokes.
I don't think the case of the earlier bikes would be any different, though they would not seem to be ridden as hard or fast, so in your case the originals might not be too bad.
I don't think any company would have a problem making new ones look original. Ask someone at Walker Machine or Oldtimer's Service websites. They would know since they specialize in these early bikes.

Good luck.
-JR

[exeric]

If the spokes are actually deep rust pitted then I would agree with replacement, but surface rust would not be a problem. Most all teens, and earlier vintage spokes were nickel plated but I don't know what Emblem did. I have laced and trued many wheels and I prefer genuine, original spokes in good condition. I have never had a spoke break during truing and have only broken rear wheel spokes pulling a sidecar. I have stripped the threads on new aftermarket spokes so I don't believe all new aftermarket spokes are better than old originals. . . Depends on who made them, the material they used, and the machine process. The nipples are unique to early motorcycles and I have seen very few reproductions that are correct and even those covered the most common shapes. Ultimately it is your decision.

[JTR249]

I never thought of that exeric. The reproduction spokes I have seen for the Indian verticals are the kit that Starklite sold. Many people needed them for restorations and I think that's what made the demand last. I don't have enough experience yet to have seen poor quality aftermarket examples. Good point.
Thanks.
-JR

[Sportster Jerry]

Is it true that AMCA judging will deduct points for reproduction spokes and nipples? If so, that is disappointing after reading that it is safer to go with reproduction spokes.

[chuckthebeatertruck]

Is it true that AMCA judging will deduct points for reproduction spokes and nipples? If so, that is disappointing after reading that it is safer to go with reproduction spokes.

Yes and no.

If they are to original pattern and finish, no deduction. I need to double check, but simulated finish for ss to resemble cadmium was acceptable (ie bead blasting) so it is possible to “upgrade” yet still score well.

if they are clearly aftermarket or wrong finish, deduction.

the major change from last year is that the score to achieve winners circle was raised to such an extent that even having just incorrect nipples is enough to keep you out.

[joe fxs fxr]

the major change from last year is that the score to achieve winners circle was raised to such an extent that even having just incorrect nipples is enough to keep you out.

Point taken, but they changed the scoring again:

Judging Rules Update: We have gone back to 95-Points for Winner's Circle and added a new 98-Point award category called Marque Excellence.

[chuckthebeatertruck]

Thanks for the correction, Joe.

Kind of funny to “go back.” Sounds like some upset people made some calls. . .

[Sportster Jerry]

Yes and no.

If they are to original pattern and finish, no deduction. I need to double check, but simulated finish for ss to resemble cadmium was acceptable (ie bead blasting) so it is possible to “upgrade” yet still score well.

if they are clearly aftermarket or wrong finish, deduction.

the major change from last year is that the score to achieve winners circle was raised to such an extent that even having just incorrect nipples is enough to keep you out.

Does anyone make a correct reproduction nipple? I have always bead blasted my Buchanan spokes and ground the B off the end, but what about nipples? I believe the judging change made it a 1 point deduction for nipples that are not exact reproductions of what Harley used? And if there is not proper reproduction, how does this jive with the "best available reproduction" rule in the judging guidelines?

[chuckthebeatertruck]

Does anyone make a correct reproduction nipple? I have always bead blasted my Buchanan spokes and ground the B off the end, but what about nipples? I believe the judging change made it a 1 point deduction for nipples that are not exact reproductions of what Harley used? And if there is not proper reproduction, how does this jive with the "best available reproduction" rule in the judging guidelines?

AFAIK, no one is making exact repos of nipples for the bikes you and I like.

For others makes/models, yes, repos are available. In theory, only the front is a challenge for our bikes as the rears shared with the big twins.

I’d ask Carlson about how this is squared for models where repos aren’t available as they are for other models from the same brand.

I may have to go through this dance if I have my ‘49 guzzi judged. Nipples were replaced with close, but not exact pattern. Only repos are the close ones.