Title Service

[T. Cotten]

Bill!

I would seek out your local state legislator that is friendly with your local motorcycist's rights groups (if there is one). Perhaps even approach him through the group.

Its amazing how a little political exposure can help grease the wheels of a bureacracy.

....Cotten

[vride5]

it has been my understanding that N.Y. did not title bikes in 64 if that bike had been sold new in N.Y. it would have had a transeverable regristration, why can't you just put insurance on it an register it,
only a thought, Dave

[rousseau]

Bill

I used Broadway Title. Here is a link to thier site.

http://www.broadwaytitle.com/

They explain in detail the process. All legal and above board.

[T. Cotten]

That Alabama company is a perfect example of a "loop-hole" title mill.

In at least two places on the site it clearly states: Your Responsibilities are to make sure that the vehicle is not currently titled in your state, stolen, salvaged or a kit car.

This is why the authorities see a "red flag" when a title mill shows up on a vehicle's history. There is no provision for authoritative inspection, and it is an obvious ploy to avoid get around them.

Even if you do not believe your vehicle is stolen, in the event of a contest (meaning someone tries to claim it), the title mill company offers you zero value, assistance, or credibility.

However, if you go through a proper bonding procedure as required by most states, you are actually purchasing an insurance policy for the value you have assessed it for.

(That will cost more money, of course.)

....Cotten

[darrylri]

It seems like the biggest problem with the state DMVs is that nobody knows and can coherently explain what the procedure is, and what exactly the requirements are.

I recently had a go-round with the California DMV over a 1928 BMW R52 I bought 2 years ago in Germany. The bike remained there until this summer, because I had a shop there go through the motor and then it had to await my visit to get put back together. I had a valid German title, a photocopy of the bill of sale the dealer and I had signed and the US Customs import document.

I brought the bike to the DMV in the back of my truck for an inspection and was prepared to write them a check. Besides the documents I mentioned above, I had the half of the inspection form I'm supposed to fill out, filled out. And I had the DMV form for an "Antique Motorcycle" license plate filled out.

The hitch was that the local office couldn't verify the German documents -- they're written in German, after all -- so all the paperwork got bundled off to Sacramento. A month later I got a letter saying that they couldn't register the bike without the original bill of sale. This puzzled me, because they had the title, and a bill of sale is just a receipt of a transaction, any scribble on paper should do. I called to find out why this was so, but I was stonewalled by the bureaucrat, who ended the conversation by telling me that if I couldn't get an original, they wouldn't register the bike.

Fortunately, after some transatlantic phone calls, the dealer found and sent me the original, and the story has a happy ending. But if the dealer had been out of business, or as is notorious about the Germans, had been unwilling to part with an original document, what would I have been able to do?

I have looked through the California Vehicle Code and the Revenue and Taxation codes and cannot find any such requirements for vehicle registration...

[T. Cotten]

Darrylri!

Most states require that the
original bill of sale be submitted, not a copy. This little gliche was apparently to much for the minibureaucrat to understand or explain.

This is a common complaint in many States.

The trick is to streamline the process by going through channels that do it regularly.

Most States also require an appraisal from an appropriate dealer. (In Illinois, this can even supersede inspections, if the dealer is specific and accurate.) Title bond appraisals are written under penalty of perjury.

Chances are, that dealer would also know the best bondsman and best license service to go to as well.

Often that is merely a local license agency, that is also an insurance agency. Sometimes you can get the bond on the spot.

Title applications submitted by agencies often escape the minibureacratic scrutiny that individuals will suffer.

....Cotten

[rousseau]

You guys need to move to another state. When I needed a title for my harley hummer I simply called the county court clerks office and ask what I had to do. They told me to apply for a lost title. All I needed was a pencil tracing of the v.i.n..

A #2 pencil and a piece of notebook paper and a few dollars is all it took.

Rocky top youll always be home sweet home to me

[Paps]

True....and Ohio used to do it the same way. The tracing was kept on file, and a vin search, done by the BMV accompanied it. The Clerk Of Courts ran the vin search. Vin tracings were excepted just like finger prints were. If a number came up at a later date with the same didgits, it better match the tracing on file. Primative but effective ! Paps

[mmoore]

I heard about dealers that had stamps but when I worked for a H-D dealer we had none that i knew about. If we had them he kept it secret as cases were sent to the factory to be stamped. this I am pretty confidant as on more than 1 occasion I unpacked the returning parts as they came in. I was unaware of any dealers that were able to stamp cases or repaired frames. use a good bonding service if you find any question of legality. I bought a bike with a title years ago, after rebuilding the engine i tried to title it. at the courthouse i found he forgot to sign a place on the back. when i took it to him i found out that it was not the seller. He said he was selling it for a friend. he did not know how to get in touch with him. I located this guy and he was ****** the bike was taken from him during a divorce by his ex. I lost the bike (which was really his anyway) gave him the title and asked him to press charges against the seller. He did offer me money for the expence but I was so angry at the seller i refused (I dont think he could pay as the divorce took everything anyway) I never got any money from the seller (did make a friend with the real owner tho) anyway my first question now when i look at a title is "is this you?"

[Lonnie]

When using a title company it is up to you as the owner to ensure that the motor or cycle you are trying to get title to is legitimate in all areas. Many of us know how to tell a legit stamp from a fake. If you don't, find someone one truly knowledgeable (not some psuedo expert). But the onus is on you to verify that the bike or motor is not stolen. Here in S.C. (and in other states) you can go to the Dept. of Motor Vehicles and they can run the numbers through their state database and the NCIC. If they can't help you and you have a friend (or a friend of a friend) who is a policeman, they can also do so. This has worked for me and others. In S.C. they even furnish official documentation to the legitimacy of the VIN.
When using a duplicate title, be aware that the original supercedes any duplicates. In other words, if you buy a vehicle with a duplicate title, register it then someone comes along with the original title in their name you are out of luck. Unless you are involved in the duplicate title procurement with the titled owner yourself, do not accept a third-part duplicate. It is too easy to get snookered especially if dealing with an estate.
The title companies work through states that do not require a title, only a registration card, to transfer ownership. Even now there are states that will not issue titles for vehicles produced prior to a certain date.
Last (and this should be obvious), if dealing with a 1970 or newer Harley be aware that the title follows the frame once the frames became numbered with the VIN. I have seen several cases where bikes were at sometime in the distant past registered on the motor when the frame was registered in another state and the mistake not found until the motor-owner tried to transfer title.
Lonnie

[bmh]

Just a note on the 70 and up stuff you mentioned, here in PA the title , engine AND frame numbers all must match. They check this at anual inspections( registered antiques are exempt from inspection) and the cops check both numbers every chance they get. I f you are from out of state and get stopped with a non-matching numbers bike you could be staying here longer than you anticipated, at the very least you'll have some serious explaining to do. So if you're looking at a late model basket with a PA title , make sure you get the frame and the cases.

[Ohio-Rider]

bmh.... Your statement about "( registered antiques are exempt from inspection)" in P.A. explains to me what my local deputy registrar couldn't.

I purchaced an old WL a few months back from a gentleman from P.A. He and I both went together with his P.A. title in hand to tranfer it over to me. The state of Ohio now requires any antique motorcycle purchaced from the state of P.A. be taken to a State Highway Patrol barricks to be inspected by them before an Ohio title will be issued. Also, no titles will be issued any longer to any dissasembled bikes. (Basket-Cases)

The inspection was painless. The officer just looked at the engine VIN to see that it matched the P.A. title and we where done. He gave me the form to take back and get the title transfered. I did ask the officer why he had to do the checking instead of the deputy registrar. He said he though it was because the state didn't have anything better for him to do.

[T. Cotten]

Total Disillusionment

After fifteen years of paying to have a certificate on the wall that says that I have an Illinois dealer's license, and fifteen years of writing appraisals, affidavits for the inspectors, and campaigning for the letter of the law, I now find that Illinois will no longer recognize my statements signed under penalty of perjury.

I was told if my title bond appraisals were ever honored, I "snuck them through", implying that I was criminal.

Any local yokel with a fly-by-night used car lot can appraise an antique motorcycle, but not my restoration studio founded in 1979.

No good deed goes unpunished.

....Cotten

[Paps]

"I was told" ???? Ask for their credentials Cotten. Are they authenic and recognized intelligently or are they cash based, on a political office position posting ? ;) Paps

[T. Cotten]

Both State capital sources I contacted gave me same rebuke; both are typical mini-bureaucrats, and ironically neither expressed much respect for the enforcement officials who set me up as a licensed dealer fifteen years ago.

When I told them my certificate is clearly titled "Authority to Deal in Motor Vehicles", they both said I was arguing with them.

Ironically, any "officer of an antique vehicle club" is recognized!
That includes my neighbor across the street, but not myself as a professional.

Out-of-state title "washers" thrive on the American institution of braindead legislators and pompous pencil-pushers who make it as difficult as possible for citizens to stay honest.

....Cotten