Tom Sifton

[redfred84]

HI Cory,
Yes, Cliff was right there, in the thick of things. However, he wandered in both camps! It was the norm to jump ship to who ever would pay the most. So Cliff also worked for Dudley Perkins, and was the wrench for Paul Albrect, as they toured the circuit (in a hearse that they slept in, with the race bikes in tow on an open, home-made trailer....which I now own). Cliff always maintained a replica of his hot rod 101, and his WR, and built a matching pair for his wife, Helen, who was of the Henderson Family. Of these replicas, hit Henderson, aluminum tanked 101 was the fastest. He lent his WR out to current racers at vintage events. We all learned a lot from him, be it in the mechanics, or on the track. Great Stuff! He could easily be a great subject for a book. He was an illigal from Canada of all things too!
RF.

[HarleyCreation]

Going by memory here (a dangerous thing), but I think in the interviews I have with Wm. H. Davidson he mentions Sifton and his using ball-bearings in the cam chests of 45-inch motors and how effective that was. Seems like there was something he wasn't keen on revealing...not certain. I'd have to look it up.

[c.o.]

Cory, Do you have flattrack racing experience? Because "with all due respect"....if you don't, you won't be hanging with anything.
Racing a fast bike is only half the equation.

Tom! Did you post this before you had your morning coffee? Do I have flattrack experience? No, I do not. I grew up riding in the dirt and that's all. When I was a kid I lived way up north in a remote community. Most of us young fellas in the area had dirt bikes. We would set up a small course in the back of an old sawmill yard and get to it! I mean what happens when you put a bunch of kids together with bikes??? Ya race! Anyway, I don't have illusions of grandeur that involve dreaming of rolling across the finish line in first place at Daytona or anything. I was just thinking of having some grassroots fun in the amateur class for starters and see what happens. Maybe I'll fail miserably. In reality it's all just a thought in my head now and it will likely take a few years to put a bike together. Thank-you for your post though, it only proved to spur me on a little harder... Part of my reasoning to start this thread was to get some dialogue going on this forum. It's been a little dreary lately. Some good stories have come out of it so far!

[c.o.]

My guess would be either a FD or a FDCA of 1921 or 1922 vintage
F = magneto ignition
D = 74 cu in (1200cc) with 3 speed transmission
and
CA = alloy pistons
1921 or 22 because the forks don't have the rebound springs introduced in 1923 and unless some of Siftons magic that we can't see has been perfomed on it, it's definately not a "H" which signifys a Two Cam Motor

Ah, man.......busted! I found this pic on the net with a "JDH" caption and never even questioned it. Thanks for the clarification Tommo!

this may be the bike.
http://www.pacificariptide.com/pacif...ydavidson.html

Are my eyes deceiving me? Or is this the same bike as above just shot in a different light?

[c.o.]

HI Cory,
Yes, Cliff was right there, in the thick of things. However, he wandered in both camps! It was the norm to jump ship to who ever would pay the most. So Cliff also worked for Dudley Perkins, and was the wrench for Paul Albrect, as they toured the circuit (in a hearse that they slept in, with the race bikes in tow on an open, home-made trailer....which I now own). Cliff always maintained a replica of his hot rod 101, and his WR, and built a matching pair for his wife, Helen, who was of the Henderson Family. Of these replicas, hit Henderson, aluminum tanked 101 was the fastest. He lent his WR out to current racers at vintage events. We all learned a lot from him, be it in the mechanics, or on the track. Great Stuff! He could easily be a great subject for a book. He was an illigal from Canada of all things too!
RF.

Red Fred! Keep 'em coming! Sounds like you got a good start for an article..........

[junkyarddog]

Good Eyes

Are my eyes deceiving me? Or is this the same bike as above just shot in a different light?[/QUOTE]

Cory
Looks like your eyes are fine
I seen both posts and never gave it a thought that it was the same bike.
Jim

[rwm]

same bike cory.it just took my laptop almost 14 hrs to reply.the virus was no where near as bad as the clowns that worked on the laptop.bottom line here is if you get a virus of the net.junk the computer.

[fabercycle]

Cory, sorry, but I don't drink coffee.....I'm just trying to help you out. I happen to know a little sumpin' about racing. It can be alot of fun, and if it takes a few years to get your project done....great. Spend some time "now" finding a friend to let you play on their flattrack bike, whatever the brand, and you'll be glad you did it later.

[c.o.]

same bike cory.it just took my laptop almost 14 hrs to reply.the virus was no where near as bad as the clowns that worked on the laptop.bottom line here is if you get a virus of the net.junk the computer.

That sux! These computers can be a real pain in the neck sometimes!!!

[c.o.]

Cory, sorry, but I don't drink coffee.....I'm just trying to help you out. I happen to know a little sumpin' about racing. It can be alot of fun, and if it takes a few years to get your project done....great. Spend some time "now" finding a friend to let you play on their flattrack bike, whatever the brand, and you'll be glad you did it later.

Maybe it was me that still needed some caffeine.... I do appreciate your input. I'm well aware of your connection with racing. That WLDR is a beauty!!! This isn't something that I'm just going to dive into head first. I'll do plenty of practicing before I go public....

[redfred84]

Hey Cory,
All I can say, is that I had more fun racing (and more success) when I was young, dumb, fearless, and made of rubber. The commraderie of the whole scene was awesome, probably the best I've ever experienced. Learning the mechanical tricks, and the track stradigies were like belonging to a top-secret club.
But eventually I got more & more scientific about it, and was thinking way more than having fun. Eventually, my bike got way, WAY better than I was, and needed a pro to keep it on the track during it's power band (something that I couldn't do, espesially since I live in the City, and could only practice once a year: at the race, toward the end).
I'm stiff now, washed up (only 50 though), but some of my best memories are "the launch", and passing someone on a turn. One truelly hasn't lived until they've gone balls out sideways on a vintage POS that they've constructed themselves.
My flat tracker was the first bike of mine that I ever sold. My body thanks me for it, but my heart, soul, and mind wish I didn't do it.

Go fast, turn left, RF.

[c.o.]

RF.... so you were a racer were ya? I like your reference to "one truly hasn't lived..." Those are my thoughts exactly. I've had this idea for quite a few years now and have always thought "someday". Well the years seem to be flying by and I'd like to give it a go before fear sets in........ So tell me what kinda flattracker did you run?

[rwm]

put some drop bars on that indian and ride it sideways.i got some measurements for flexi if your worried about going over the highside

[redfred84]

HI Cory,
I ran a '36,'37, '40 Johnny Cash special, that I got off of Cliff for $800. It was in a pile of stuff from some local racer guy, and was siezed when I got her. My dad actually helped my unstick her with a wooden baseball bat! I wasn't a jock, just used the bat to bar the garage door. My dad hated bikes, kicked me out of the house because of them, but here he was, helping work on a racer.
At first I put knobbys on her, and stroked it out w/ chief flywheels. Took it up to Russian River when ever it rained, so we could go muddin'. I had chrome muffler tips as exhaust, all 6" of em! The local country kids would hear this thing coming up the mountain; a thundering V-twin would appear, with NO suspension, and my girl friend riding it! These kids just couldn't fathom a foot clutch either.
Eventually Lee "Pop" Stanley coached me to tune it to 648 specs, including altering the intake ports by welding them up, and re-starting from scratch just about. I tried to promote vintage flat tracking out here with Dick Mann, but he was against it. Greg Harrison, then of the AMA (now part of our Editorial Team) was a big help back then also. Eventually vintage flat tracking graduated to the half mile at D'port and I won my first heat at the first ever race there. Kiwi sponsored me for awhile (we had a lot of heart ache with D'port getting rained out after hauling the bike all the way there a few times), and there were a lot of mechanical difficulties; magnetoes, throttle cables, tranny detents, etc...
It was a Sport Scout; narrowed & chromed 741 forks, 741 front frame (because is was given to me), square based cyls, & '37 Sport scout rear section. I still think I coulda been faster if I had the money to buy a Barnes quick change hub. Instead, I had a series of sprockets that I could bolt on over the existing sprocket. Kenny Edmiston used to coach us too, as I used to run with Jerry Chinn out of Washington. He graduated to real Big Base Scouts, but I could still whoop him. It was a lot of fun, but a lot of work.
To me, the HD seemed like there were built like tanks; undestructable, but harder to work on, and needing much more to go fast. But they enjoy more ease of parts availability. Cliff made a few roller HDs, but they didn't impress us. Now, the descendants of all this, Roy Taboda, is kicking ass on his WR at D'port. But he still can't catch Fasst Jim on his Chief during the Board Track Class. But Roy is right behind him, on Dave Kaftons (Cannon Ball vet) dinosour HD. It takes an awful lot to run 2 classes on the same night.
Sure wish I didn't feel like I'm made of glass these days, as I was gung ho, and had no fear back in the day.
RF.

[c.o.]

Red Fred!!! That's some cool racin' history!!! Your Sport Scout sounded like it would have been a hoot to ride! Jerry Chinn use to show up at the Vernon, B.C. O'Keefe meet and tear around the track on a 648. At least if memory serves me right it was a big baser. Pete Gagan would know as he was seen out ripping up the dirt on an Indian too! Those days were great as a lot of people showed up to race. I got to see Jim fly around the Davenport track in '07. Man that guy can ride! It was a real rush to see those races. Those boys in the handshift class don't mess around. Those bikes haul a$$!