Completely ORIGINAL 69 XLCH

[Cool AC]

I am interested in finding out more about having my bike judged. I have an all original 69 XLCH with around 3800 miles on it. Original paint and parts all the way down to the nuts and bolts of the bike. My husband found it for sale on craigslist. The poor guy apparently had no idea what he had because we bought it for $1000.00. The bike belonged to the guys dad, who had passed away. It had been sitting in a garage, under a tarp since 1974. So we brought it home, cleaned some of the nastiness off of it and there it was, all shiny and gloriously old. Anyway, since we have figured out that it is such a rare bike, I am terrified to ride it so I thought the best course of action was to show it. Any suggestions?? THANKS!!!

[Paps]

Photos will get best info. Paps

[Cool AC]

I tried. All of the pics I have are too large. I will have to set up a photobucket acct.

[silentgreyfello]

The poor guy apparently had no idea what he had because we bought it for $1000.00.

Hopefully you didn't beat him down to that. If he priced it, then all is fair. If it is all original, why have it judged? To have someone tell you it's all original?

[Cool AC]

http://www.caimag.com/forum/f33/new-...html#post52126

Here is a link with a few of the pics. I will work on getting better pictures this weekend. Thanks!

[Cool AC]

Hopefully you didn't beat him down to that. If he priced it, then all is fair. If it is all original, why have it judged? To have someone tell you it's all original?

No, we even tried to tell him that the bike was worth more than what he was asking. He said he needed the money then so we gave it to him. No, I already know that it is original. I would like for it to be noted though. You certainly see very few unmolested bikes..do you not think it is a good idea to have it judged, silentgreyfello???

[silentgreyfello]

You certainly see very few unmolested bikes..do you not think it is a good idea to have it judged, silentgreyfello???

With our current regime? NO! I will never have another bike judged until the village idiot (Rockhead) is thrown out. It is nothing against the judges, mind you. Most are terrific folks. It has to do with how he treats folks that have poured decades into the judging yet were forced out because of his gigantic ego. (see the thread in judging)

[Sargehere]

Ignore the above. 'Just someone with other positive attributes carrying a personal grudge against the current AMCA president. "The current regime" is composed of dedicated personalities only trying to defend the quality of judgeable bikes against the repro revolution going on, where components of questionable quality are being hawked, from tiny parts to entire frames and engines. It's mostly a tempest in a teapot. Take this from someone who's been around the Antique Motorcycle Club almost 40 years. A lot of dust is being stirred up over very little. The club will go on.
Only former Deputy Chief Judge Robin Markey got the shaft, undeservedly. The BoD didn't even deign to notify him of his status after Chief Judge Kevin Valentine walked out of the BoD meeting at Eustis. But, by his whining reaction to the undeserved treatment, he won himself few friends who could probably have otherwise helped him.
By all means, have it judged. People with marque and model expertise will look at it and tell you exactly what you have, down to correct or incorrect washers under the nuts. Will also set you on a quest for anything you might not have (a front fender?) to perfect it.

[kval]

Only former Deputy Chief Judge Robin Markey got the shaft, undeservedly. The BoD didn't even deign to notify him of his status after Chief Judge Kevin Valentine walked out of the BoD meeting at Eustis. But, by his whining reaction to the undeserved treatment, he won himself few friends who could probably have otherwise helped him.

Gerry
I have seen elsewhere on the forum , you telling somebody to get their facts straight. maybe you should take your own advice, do you know why I left the meeting. NO!! if you or anyone else would like the entire real story contact me, because I will not go into it here.

[silentgreyfello]

Take this from someone who's been around the Antique Motorcycle Club almost 40 years. .

Yes, take it from another of the "good ol boys network". They will always be truthful. They don't have agenda's. Their meetings are trasparent. They spend our money frugally (museums, foundation). Their leader is very smart, and always treats people with respect. Yes, take some advice from the guy who tells you to take it from him because he's "been aroud the AMC for almost 40 years".

Back to your original question, the judges are very helpful and will steer you right if you choose to have it judged.

[Sargehere]

You don't know me, SilentGrey... If you did, you'd know I'm about the farthest thing from a member of the "good ol' boys network" you'll ever find. I've never been a BoD member, though I've known many. I haven't even been an officer of a chapter since Seaboard, in the 1970s. My closest contact with the BoD died with Peter Heintz. The present board members aren't even acquaintances of mine.
I go back to the days of Doc Patt, Ernie Biddle, Earl Chalfant, Bob McClean and Lou Lichva. Do you even know who they were? (all deceased, now) They were the dedicated heart of the club when I joined, as a kid in my twenties (actually, I joined a couple of years before Bob McClean brought his first motorcycle, the white Schickel, to show at Fort Mott) and the 'swapmeet' parts of National Meets were members opening the trunks of their cars and trading --actually trading parts to one another that they knew the other needed to complete his pride-and-joy. No one got more than $25 for a complete fender, or $5 or $10 for a tailight. That's when antique motorcycling was fun.
There was no eBay, no internet, and Steve McQueen was still alive. The Las Vegas auction of his vehicles was the seminal event that ruined antique motorcycling as an average Joe's, poor man's, hobby. Big $$$ suddenly discovered antique motorcycles, and prices for everything went through the roof almost overnight!
I have seen judging and done it, from Doc Patt, through Peter Heintz and Kevin/Robin. "Agendas?" What on earth are you talking about? Both you and Cotten talk about "agendas," but I've yet to encounter one. These latest judging changes are exactly a last-ditch defense by the club to keep counterfeit bikes that never saw the inside of a factory, whether it be in Milwaukee, Springfield, Birmingham or Osaka, from reaching the pinnacle of recognition as examples to be emulated, the best of the breed, "Circle of Excellence," when it comes to antique motorcycling. Newly-minted 8-valve head kits do not make an otherwise common "23JDCA" a "factory racer!"
Repro parts will keep this hobby alive for coming generations. Most of this stuff isn't being made anymore, in case you haven't noticed. The rules now in place will at least enforce that the repro parts that find acceptance are the best, and most faithful-to-originals that can be made, not chrome plated offshore junk accepted as "good enough." If that's an agenda, I like it!

And Kevin, I don't know why, nor is it important. I just know that you shouldn't have. You votes wit'cher feet.

[junkyarddog]

I could call you testy, but i won't. I've been around a long time, but don't know what the old boys do. I know you have justified cause to jump at the whiners on here, but i wish people would refrain from turning this forum which is a great place for helping fellow members sort out problems and postiing information. I hope people will quit using this site as a spitting contest.
Jim

[Sargehere]

I could call you testy, but i won't. I've been around a long time, but don't know what the old boys do. I know you have justified cause to jump at the whiners on here...

Well, thanks for that, 'Dog. I think that we all could use less whining around here, and I got fed up with it and decided to confront it, is all. As I have already heard from many other members, it's TIRING! No minds will be particularly changed by more whining about the past.
What's done is done, and there's no going back, despite the deperate hopes for some miracle of the Wayback Machine by the dispossessed. Most knowing members, I think, have decided that fact, and are more eager to get on with the future than continue the debate the coulda, woulda, shouldas of the past. It's over.

but i wish people would refrain from turning this forum which is a great place for helping fellow members sort out problems and postiing information. I hope people will quit using this site as a spitting contest.
Jim

Amen, Jim!
BTW, the forum that presently helps people by answering motorcycle questions, with a minimum of conflict, is CAIMag dot com/forum. There are some very knowledgeable people over there who even gather 'round and gang up and chime in, to give the consensus of many minds to legitimate Indian and Harley questions, at least.
The archives ("Search") over there consist of over 40 thousand posts answering questions on about "everything" Harley and Indian related. This forum, OTOH, has devolved pretty much into the AMCA's political shouting match, accomplishing little. Sorry!

[bmh]

cool AC,

Maybe once we have a published set of rules and guidelines which are currently in use for judging someone may be able to help you with your questions. Until then you and everyone else are on their own. Who knows what they may be looking for at the next meet, or if it was the same as the last or will be the same at the next.

[Sargehere]

cool AC,

Maybe once we have a published set of rules and guidelines which are currently in use for judging someone may be able to help you with your questions. Until then you and everyone else are on their own. Who knows what they may be looking for at the next meet, or if it was the same as the last or will be the same at the next.

Sorry, Brian, that you don't understand that judging changes like were made at Eustis in January are made only at BoD meetings, which are semi-annual, and judging rule changes are rarer than that. The BoD put the rule changes in place at the Eustis meet, trying to run the entire season under the same set of rules. I judged at Eustis. It worked pretty well. Now, it's been done again at Oley, that I didn't get to, and Denton, but there hasn't been any drop off in bikes entered in judging compared to previous years (Oley) or what would be expected, for the size of the well-attended inaugural meet (Denton).
A Taiwan Tedd frame with NO hallmarks ain't gonna cut it. A pretty-accurate Race Frame Engineering frame will. That's the the fire we're holding the feet of all the makers of the junque parts to.
Use common sense. (I know, "what a concept!") We don't judge from ten feet away, we get up close and personal with the bikes. We know there are going to be repro frames, and what to look for. A reasonable repro, like a year-and-model-specific one from Australia, right now, is a far cry from a "Generic Panhead" frame of five years ago. It can be done: erasure of the "obviousness;" not to "fool the judges into thinking it's original," but to become a "Passed" repro frame, not an "obvious," repro, meaning incorrect in easily detectable details. A higher standard, if someone expects their bike to make the Winners' Circle of Excellence.
The rules adopted don't say ALL repro frames are a six-point deduction. They say "obvious reproductions," meaning generic frames with glaring inaccuracies, like toolbox mounts in the wrong place, or of the wrong type, or any of a hunded other errors. What's there has to be correct for the year and model of the bike.
Some of the members are all worried that Brit or German or Japanese bikes are going to get some kind of "free pass." NO to that, too. I've already heard from at least one Brit and one Canadian offering all the detail our marque judges will need on British VINs and they also have the poop on frame-and-model years. Steve's working on the Japanese info. There are entire clubs devoted to Japanese bikes, and they're on board.
It didn't happen overnight, but Steve Dawdy is working hard on getting it all put down in writing, and it will happen.