Knucklehead restamp job???

[silentgreyfello]

This bike on ebay right now is reported as a "Winner's circle" bike in 2005. In looking at the vin number, it appears that two different styles of "4" were used. Look at the horizontal base of each 4. One is longer than the middle horizontal portion, the other is shorter. Anybody have an explanation for this?

[silentgreyfello]

Here is the auction link. Nice looking bike.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1940-...5d3c84bf#v4-35

[Jerry Wieland]

That is a very real original number for 1940. In 1940 year 4's are different than sequence # 4's. Zero's are different too. I believe that the 40
is actually a tandem stamp. Hence it is also a lighter hit.

Jerry

[T. Cotten]

Here is one that confirms Jerry's double stamp observation;
Note the impression above the year portion indicating that it was indeed a single tool.

Many years appear very symmetrical for the year portion, although for all we know, they may have been merely two tools taped together!

The Factory was most likely not as religious about conformity as History would like it.
The fossil record is clouded by their own variances, as well as boogering after the fact.
Please consider that two styles of 4s were used in VINs, open and closed tops, yet there are legitimate open-back 4s in production numbers. Who is alive to say the tools were never misplaced?

In '37, the VIN font changed, yet I have photos to show one out of order on the change.

Around 1973, a whole slew of stupidglides went out entirely mis-stamped.
(Reference: Illinois State Police)

The AMCA may incur genuine liability to declare what is genuine, and what is not.
It can only deliver an opinion.

....Cotten

[Neil74]

I bought a new Superglide in 1975 from the dealer here in Florida, it had one set of numbers on the case with a line scratched thru it. The numbers that were matched to the title and frame were just stamped right below them.

[T. Cotten]

Neil!

I have encountered several hash-marked VINs that were perfectly legal.

I have a hack frame with the numbers hash-marked,
and the very same numbers stamped under it!

In the early '80s an Illinois State Investigator told me not to worry about it.
But the way Illinois is going now......... !

....Cotten

[Rubone]

Neil74,
Working for a dealer and doing most of the new bike set-up I got to see several of those as I uncrated them. not the most confidence inspiring moment in H-D history.
Robbie

[Chris Haynes]

I bought several new, err, rebuilt Shovelhead engines from H-D back in the early '70's. They were supposedly warranty return that the MoCo rebuilt, put a line through the original VIN, then stamped a new number below it. Of course there was a '60's style Bar & Shield on each end of the line through the original number.

[kval]

GEE!!
and I was told by some "knowledgeable" Harley judges that there was no way that Harley EVER screwed up the fonts or restamped cases FOR ANY REASON!!
I wonder what that will do to the NEW RULE about restamped numbers

[Dave Minerva]

I also bought a 1975 FL highway patrol Harley from the city of Philadelphia that was a double stamper. It was in the early 80's and I only paid $550 for it. I bought a second one for $600. Those were the days!! The new vin number was over the other vin number. It also had a line chisled through the lower number.

[T. Cotten]

A further complication were "late issues": machines built around NOS cases by dealers to fill "open titles" and stamped at the dealerships. Open titles have been illegal for many years, however it did not stop the practice, and continued into modern times.

I have firm suspicions that many VLs were created during WW2 to fill civilian needs. After the war, consider how many NOS 45" cases were available. I have suspicions that many end-model years, such as the '47 OHV, were created after the production year to clear inventory. (It sure seems to me that there are more '65s on the road today than ever produced!)

Detecting an H-D or Indian "late issue" may be impossible.

Applying any rules of thumb about VINs can only apply to one marque or another.
Consider passing judgement upon all the other marques than H-D or Indian, with next to no research available.

A blatantly obvious bad VIN should carry a heavy deduction, but it should not carry a sentence of complete exclusion. What we think we know today may change tomorrow.

Enough history has been destroyed by AMCA rules already.

....Cotten
#776

[droptopford]

A blatantly obvious bad VIN should carry a heavy deduction, but it should not carry a sentence of complete exclusion. What we think we know today may change tomorrow.

Enough history has been destroyed by AMCA rules already.

....Cotten
#776[/QUOTE]

Amen Brother!

[Robin-M]

Thank you Tom and others, for your experience and knowledge and common sense on HD numbers. I am very familiar with Indian, Honda, and 50's and 60's Royal Enfield numbers, but not very familiar with Harley numbers. Although just being around motorcycles my whole life, you pick up on things. This socialistic number crap that I've been fighting with for several years from a few that think they know it all, they know just enough to be dangerous and they think every number was perfect and exact which is what I've been arguing about with them the whole time. This was one of the main reasons for their new-formed-judging-committee so they could push all the rules they wanted including their version of ALL number stamps. "Good numbers". When half of them couldn't tell a good number if it jumped up and bit them.

At Eustis, at my last judging meeting that I was allowed to attend, I explained to them through proof and documentation that Indian made almost 10,000 1948 Chiefs. I have seen and worked on approximately 3000 in my lifetime. I probably have 20 plus 48 Chiefs and numbers at the shop right now. I will guarantee the same person with the same set of stamps did not stamp all of these machines. I was mocked by the know-it-alls at the meeting after I explained and gave a lot of other evaluatons of my years of experience, and after reading the minutes to our meeting, all it said about what I said was that "I added the human element", which they're trying to do away with.

This new board of directors judging reich that took control of a smooth running judging system and put an apprentice judge in charge is alienating most of the knowledgable judges and keeping the membership from putting their bikes in for judging. Of course I'm being blammed for telling the judges not to show up, when instead it's their arrogance and lack of experience that are turning them away. I told them In Eustis that this was going to happen. But I'm just a "motorcycle guy" that has done nothing but motorcycles my whole life, so what would I know. There were roughly 40 judges at Eustis, because they didn't know of the terroristic overthrow till Sunday - - Oley there was approximately 6 judges and approximately 6 apprentices - - and I heard we had approximately 10 judges at Denton. According to pictures, they were using people with no judging qualifications, no appropriate judging card. They can make all the new bogus rules they want, but without KNOWLEDGE, COMMON SENSE AND EXPERIENCE they're just going through the motions and killing the most prestigious motorcycle judging in the world.

Please help stop them. Please write letters to the editor. Also there is a petition to sign online or at the meets for "Open Elections of our Officers". Our board is letting us down.

I apologize for the length of this posting, but I am so deeply hurt to see the judging system that I devoted over 35 years of my life promoting, being destroyed by a handful of non-knowledgable, non-experienced "know-it-alls".

Thank you,
Robin Markey

[vph-d]

I saw at least one new H-D come out of the crate with a lined out VIN back about 1980. I also saw several new machines with the confidential numbers stamped on the motor cases instead of the VIN number. I think the exception is the rule HERE.
VPH-D

[Neil74]

I have run into 3 different 73 Sportsters with no numbers on the frame, well two no numbers and one different numbers from the motor which matched the Florida title. All three had titles which matched the motor numbers was this also common?