Rise and Fall of Buell Motorcycle Co.

[HarleyCreation]

A flying machine

One advantage Erik Buell has is that he is not tied to Harley-Davidson in any emotional way. His build philosophy does not depend on the so-called Harley mystique. Most of his fans wouldn't care if his motorcycles have Rotax or foreign engines so long as his machines handle and perform. If they can fly with the best of the other sport bikes.

Speaking of flying, Pennington was the first to understand that a motorized bicycle was also a flying machine. Granted, you fly low, but there are sensations of balance and equilibrium -- weighlessness and freefall -- that automobiles and other road hogs don't provide. It starts with that first bicycle ride and the magical realization that you are actually balancing on two wheels and have left earth's gravity behind.

At least until you fall down.

In 1911, FAM chairman Fred Willis said: "The motorcycle is the aeroplane of the earth..." If that's true then our 800-900 lb 2-wheeled behemoths are like 747s or B-52s. They can still get off the ground but they lose some of that essential nimble go-anywhere quality that I best love motorcycles for.

I'd like to try out one of the Ducatis you guys talk about. But I'm an old guy now and enjoy thinking about speed thrills more than actually practicing them. But still....

[vince_A]

I have ridden several different Buell models and they almost all had that "One Trick Pony" thing thing going for them (no real highway "legs", a "stoplight to stoplight" bike). I was generally struck with the thought that the bikes were a "real engine" away from REALLY being something.

I think that Rotax sure would have been a way forward for Buell.

The Blast was GREAT as a commuter-bike but it was not marketed as such and that bummed me out big-time.

Unclviny

[Slojo]

[QUOTE=bmh;94485]I happen to like my road sofa, something to be said for all day, all night comfort. QUOTE]

Brian I agreee with all day comfort and a good touring machine, Just not 800 pounds worth.
Joe

[bmh]

I happen to like my road sofa, something to be said for all day, all night comfort. Sport is an attitude, it's how you ride. Motorcycles by nature are sporting machines. Some riders are more sporting lads than others, always been that way. The type of bike doesn't really matter as much as the type of rider.

The comparisons to Ducati are definitely on the mark, but not everyone rides them as they were engineered to be riding. Yet what they are doing with output on a 61-74 cubic inch V-twin motor right off the showroom floor is something those that be at H-D should have taken notice to a long time ago. My main problem with anything new from Milwaukee is that after you plunk down $16-$20K you got to spend another $4K or so to wind up with a motorcycle that has enough gumption to get out of it's own way. That just ticks me off.

[portagepan]

There have been some good thoughts here. Back in the late 60's, when I startd riding, it was all about the "sport" aspect. I didn't have one bike in those days that wasn't hopped up in one way, or many. And it was all about handling. That is why I rode Ducatis and Nortons. You couldn't give me a Harley in those days. They were a joke. You might make one go fast in a straight line, but they were unsafe and unreliable at speed. Now I am older and slower myself, so the Harleys seem to fit me fine. And i do love riding my Pan. or Shovel, and my 1984 EVO dresser, or my nice 1994 EVO Sportster, which is possibly one of the best Harleys ever made. But everytime I ride my Yamaha, i can't help but wonder why all the extra weight of the Harleys. It doesn't do anything. How is it, that in 1974 I had my new Ducati GT, at just over 400 lbs. and travelled many thousands on it, with no problems, but todays touring bikes are 8 to 900 lbs? I can see possibly 200 lbs. more for the bags, tour pack, fairing, etc., but where does all the other heft come from? Poor engineering, and cheap manufacturing processes? Well. OK, they do have electric starters, also, and my right knee really appreciates that.
Mike

[LouieMCman]

I have ridden most of the Buell models and only one has hit the mark in my book, the 1125. They finally had a motor with power and low vibration. It's the only Buell that reminded me of the wife's ST2 Ducati. The rest of the Buells are low power vibrators period, my opinion is crush all but the 1125's. I hope they come back with another series, I only hope they are smart enough to forget the sportster motors and concentrate on the Rotax. As far as Ducati's, great bikes, fun as hell to ride, fast, sexy, and Italian. A little too much maintenance, but no bad enough not to have at least one!

[Slojo]

"Every bike in the Ducati line up has at least the middle name "sport" because that is what motorcycling is about and they recognize that more than any other production motorcycle company on planet Earth."
Joe
Just another guys thoughts


Joe, I agree that all Ducati models are "sporty" because they have the right balance of weight, power, and handling. My cousin has a Hypermotard S and a MultiStrada and they're both really fun bikes. I was just trying to make a point that they are not driven by just their race replica superbikes any more. Bikes like their Monster, Hypermotard, GT 1000, and the new 1200 MultiStrada are real world bikes that can be enjoyed on more than just the Sunday morning replica racer canyon rides. Interesting though that they too currently have a sport touring "gap" in their line up. Hopefully they have a replacement for the ST-2/4 in the pipeline.

I just fear that HD doesn't have the diversity in it's product line to be viable once the "boomers" who have fueled their sales growth over the last 20 years become disinterested or physically unable to ride. The average age of their buyers looks a lot like what Cadillac's was a generation ago. They can die on the vine like Lincoln has been doing or they can create new models that appeal to a much wider segment of the population like Cadillac has done over the last 10 or so years. I'm hoping for the later.

I CONCURE.
I will not wilt on the vine and turn my motorcycling into a lazy chair. I realize the aging condition and will look to lighter easier riding bikes when necessarily a steam ship is not in my future. When will Milwaukee realize their bikes like most other bikes in their competitive segment are to big, to heavy? How do they plan to address this issue? Install another wheel (what about power steering) this is not a motorcycle it does not lean into the corners. Sorry guys for the threes we need a new name like Mototrike Motomobile Mototriroller. Where is Pennington when you need him? Perhaps a medium sized licence plate.
I realize that many people have requirements for three wheels or they just prefer them over two wheels this is not my issue to each his own. Personally the new threes by Bombardier are pretty cool just not a motorcycle (more of a toboggan on wheels, toboggans are fun also, no snow), I hope Bombardier and HD do well with their threes as those who like to buy them do well also.
The closing of Buell was just a power play (crush our Past (Blast) we will crush your future) , egos flaring. So what does the non-biker top management (who put HD in the precarious condition they are in now) do in Milwaukee they make a foolish decision, unrelenting egos, CLOSE Buell instead of selling to those (Bombardier or Rotax) out their who made offer to purchase Buell. Let me see, spend millions to close Buell or,,, lets see make millions selling Buell. A decision had to be made. I did not go to Harvard to figure this one out. Wait,,, how about closing Buell temporarily while our economy heals?
Reading into what happened and looking into the time line one can surmise that the powers to be in Milwaukee demanded Buell (a sport bike exclusive minded individual) to manufacture the Blast (a trainer B-last bike) and then he had to do it at a loss due to motor costs dictated and supplied by HD, convient.
Once Buell had enough of the Blast he foolishly crushed it (and the future of his company) and made a big event of it saw in many motorcycles magazines.
Harley and its foolish power play management then returned the favor by crushing Buell and its latest bike, the pinnacle of Buell Technology to date the Barracuda 2. What do you stock holder think of that?
My view point based on my simple logic, take it for what it is worth. Had Buell not crushed the last Blast he might be in business today, perhaps under another subsidiary.
Joe

[Northwoods_Maine]

"Every bike in the Ducati line up has at least the middle name "sport" because that is what motorcycling is about and they recognize that more than any other production motorcycle company on planet Earth."
Joe
Just another guys thoughts


Joe, I agree that all Ducati models are "sporty" because they have the right balance of weight, power, and handling. My cousin has a Hypermotard S and a MultiStrada and they're both really fun bikes. I was just trying to make a point that they are not driven by just their race replica superbikes any more. Bikes like their Monster, Hypermotard, GT 1000, and the new 1200 MultiStrada are real world bikes that can be enjoyed on more than just the Sunday morning replica racer canyon rides. Interesting though that they too currently have a sport touring "gap" in their line up. Hopefully they have a replacement for the ST-2/4 in the pipeline.

I just fear that HD doesn't have the diversity in it's product line to be viable once the "boomers" who have fueled their sales growth over the last 20 years become disinterested or physically unable to ride. The average age of their buyers looks a lot like what Cadillac's was a generation ago. They can die on the vine like Lincoln has been doing or they can create new models that appeal to a much wider segment of the population like Cadillac has done over the last 10 or so years. I'm hoping for the later.

[fillibuster]

Every bike in the Ducati line up has at least the middle name "sport" because that is what motorcycling is about and they recognize that more than any other production motorcycle company on planet Earth.
Joe
Just another guys thoughts

Back when I was 6 days divorced and 50 years old, I really wanted a V-rod. But then, I'd dreamed of riding the flat tracks too, and with creaky old bones, well, the speed limit and payload ruled the priority list. A dressed V-rod wasn't available, so I got a Road King that won't drive straight without pulling the bars to the left.
A lot of us old yuppies still seem to prefer a big hog that resembles a lazy boy on wheels. But youth (and the young at heart) have rarely sought to emulate the previous generation, or an age-old craze. Perhaps HD missed the transition, just as in the 50's. They survived then, but were leaner then also. Are they now scaling back, or just being conservative? maybe even too conservative?
I think they'd like to have broadened their field, but realized they'd lost too much of our succeeding generations for the time being, and they can't build the bike that wins them back.

[Slojo]

Look at what Ducati has been able to do (with somewhat limited funds) in terms of diversifying their model portfolio to attract a wider customer base in recent years. Their best selling models are no longer sport bikes.

Just one guy's thoughts ...

Every bike in the Ducati line up has at least the middle name "sport" because that is what motorcycling is about and they recognize that more than any other production motorcycle company on planet Earth.
Joe
Just another guys thoughts

[Slojo]

Exactly Robbie what did happen in the USA. Without any light weight performance choices available to our market, WHY? I also have a Ducati ST,,,4, ST stands for Sport Tractor on my tandem seat equipped machine. This bike gassed up and with empty bags is about 500 pounds even, ready to roll. I have seen better that 55 mpg on the freeway when not "on it". The bike comfortably cruises at 120 in sixth gear. The minimal vibration is secondary issues and can be easily ignored they are so slight. Power is ample for two up passing in a blink of an eye. You cannot ask for a much better handling machine with bags. I tried a BMW and although I liked it , it did not like me at all. A 1996 R 1100 RT, This bike could find it's way back to the dealer on auto pilot. Our only primary hope was Eric Buell and now he is put on the back burner. I once purchased a new big twin HD it shook itself apart I guess it was not intended to be run so hard. Thanks HD see if you get any more of my business.
Joe

[Rubone]

I am another advocate of the "light, nimble, fast and handsome" school of thought in motorcycle design. My Ducati ST2 sits right next to my BMW R100RS, both which meet at least my own criteria for the above traits. The MoCo lost me in the '80s, never to return. I have a shop full of vintage H-D iron as well as Brit and European, but modern H-D offerings as well as those from Victory and Indian make me wonder what went wrong in the motorcycle world!
Robbie

[Slojo]

Quoting Herb "I still follow the original maxim of motorcycle design that Mr. E.J. Pennington first lay down in the 1890s: light, nimble, fast and handsome. Those qualities are still critical but are often lost sight of by today's engineering and styling masterminds and marketing geniuses."

Herb what you need is a Ducati, no other production motorcycle on Earth built today complies with those prerequisites better than the Ducati line of bikes (price was not factored into Penningtons equation). Pennington had it right just did not have the follow through swing necessary to pull it off.
Joe

[HarleyCreation]

Everyone needs a can of tomatoes, but....

(snip)
Here's the very basics of what I see that would need to be done to turn the V-Rod into a sport tourer:

Add comfortable long ride seating for 2, detachable hard bags, and a fairing/windshield while simultaneously losing about 75 lbs. Goal should be 550 lbs.

Design a frame and front end that would handle like the competition. Reduce wheelbase by 6-8" and design quicker steering into the rake/trail.

Engine output is fine as is. Sport tourers are as more about torque as HP.

Allow it to run cool for lengthy periods of time with a normal bike sized radiator - not the current street rod sized one.

Need 200 mile range on a tank of gas.

A couple of 12v plug ins for GPS, cell phone, electric vest, etc.

The need for a sport touring bike in the HD lineup seems so obvious that I have to think that the current engine weight or dimensions just won't allow it.

That's a great list of specs, esp. your total 550 lb weight limitation. That is pushing the max. I'd only things I'd add are non-freak styling and a little windshield wiper.

You gotta wonder if H-D had handed Erik Buell those specs for a V-Rod/Buell sport-tourer and a budget to develop it properly if he would have embraced the project with his noted enthusiasm. Or, if he would have balked because it wasn't the kind of bike he wanted to build. If properly executed, however, it could have become Buell's flagship model to bring in the bacon for the pure sport jobs and given his company real value to Mother Davidson. It could have moved the Buell name up front along with BMW, Kawi Concours, etc. Without such a mainstream machine Buell remained a quirky niche bike. Something that Harley's honchos could not understand!

Everyone seems to agree that H-D badly needs a sport-tourer. In fact, when I finally abandoned my snazzy Brookfield leather-dressed Panhead I shopped around and gave up on H-D because they didn't build anything that met my needs. That is, a motorcycle that could blast down the freeway at 70 mph in a cold rain, but could also (when need be) meander down a cow trail thru the woods. So I got a BMW instead (R75/6), and later another (K100).

I still follow the original maxim of motorcycle design that Mr. E.J. Pennington first lay down in the 1890s: light, nimble, fast and handsome. Those qualities are still critical but are often lost sight of by today's engineering and styling masterminds and marketing geniuses.

Back to the Blast, I could never understand why they didn't come out with a Harley-badged version. They could have dressed it up in any number of ways to entice younger riders who wanted the name "Harley-Davidson." It worked pretty well with the old 2-strokes. There could have had a mini-Sportster, a cool classic, a mini-tourer & commuter. But as a Buell, who noticed the Blast no matter how nice a bike it might have been? It got more notice when they cubed it. R.I.P.

Lastly, in the article H-D's new CEO Keith Wandell was said to have questioned "why anyone would even want to ride a sportbike..."

That was a little silly considering how many the Japanese and the Euros sell. Besides, that is what sensible people have been saying about ALL MOTORCYCLES from Day One! What he should have said was what Kleimenhagen said back in the 1930s: "Everyone needs a can of tomatoes, but nobody needs a motorcycle."

To borrow a phrase: Those who forget the lessons of the past are forced to repeat them.

[INLINE4NUT]

Buell was a mistake from the begining !! The Motor Co. bought a slug period ! The Largest problem they have now isnt the fact as someone said that the brakes suck and the handling is right out of the 50s its they have way to many models,The term" KISS" comes to mind !!! A while back I was @ the factory and was very disappointed ,management seemed to HATE the workers and vice a versa ! And the real big wheels seemed to be stuck on themselves, years ago (well 1996 ) on a crosss country ride sponsered by HD half the people from the Co rode alright ...in a few motorhomes !!!! Thats a problem for a cycle Co !!! Get rid of Buell and3/4 of the rest of their bad ideas and youll see people smiling again !