Rise and Fall of Buell Motorcycle Co.

[bmh]

While I hear that Erik is assembling some of the last of the 1125's in a warehouse somewhere under the name of Buell Racing. The bikes are apparently race only versions, there was a non-competition clause in his severance package, I think it was two years that he can not produce a road bike. As for the Rotax motor, Buell racing bought the remaining engines and parts. The design and rights to manufacture are the sole property of Mama Bar & Shield. I heard that he tried to arrange a quick sale of all strategic assets to the Cagiva group as soon a she found about the impending doom. This move was caught and foiled by the board of directors. I was also excited to see what MV Agusta might bring into the H-D/Buell picture. I agree it's long overdue for some real change in engineering. While not necessarily a water cooled motor, an air-oil cooled V-twin with overhead cams and a red-line in the 10,000 RPM range with a wide power-band is what they should have given us instead of just pumping up the inches on the twin cam.

[micmac]

I agree with Harley Creation, my wife has a Buell Blast and it is a great lil bike. She is a little over 5 feet tall and it fits her perfect. I was sad to see em go down the tube. As for the V-Rod, I haven't really looked at one close in awhile however 3-4 years ago the welds on the frames looked like a high school shop class learning project. I can tell ya how Harley will stay in business. As many times as I have said I will not go into a stealership I was in a rush to do an oil change for some weekend riding this weekend and because I was in a rush and it was handy I stopped in the local dealership to buy some 20W50, I feel stupid to admit in public I paid $30.00 for 4 quarts of HD dinosaur oil, when you can get 20W50 Kendall at Auto Zone for $3.00 a quart, I guess as long as fools like me stumble in they will survive,oh well live and learn.

[Greg H]

Where did the MoCo think they where going with the purchase of MV Agusta?
Not even a range of bikes !

[Northwoods_Maine]

Barry, I'm not sure why they never developed a sport touring platform for the V-Rod motor. I know that the V-Rod currently is about 6-8" longer than the typical sport tourer, but I don't know if that's forced by the engine dimensions or not. Question - could that motor survive 2-up spirited riding over long idstances with something less that Willy G's version of a '32 Ford radiator and grille? That huge cow-catcher of a radiator turned me off to the bike from the moment I saw it. Here's the very basics of what I see that would need to be done to turn the V into a sport tourer:

Add comfortable long ride seating for 2, detachable hard bags, and a fairing/windshield while simultaneously losing about 75 lbs. Goal should be 550 lbs.

Design a frame and front end that would handle like the competition. Reduce wheelbase by 6-8" and design quicker steering into the rake/trail.

Engine output is fine as is. Sport tourers are as more about torque as HP.

Allow it to run cool for lengthy periods of time with a normal bike sized radiator - not the current street rod sized one.

Need 200 mile range on a tank of gas.

A couple of 12v plug ins for GPS, cell phone, electric vest, etc.

The need for a sport touring bike in the HD lineup seems so obvious that I have to think that the current engine weight or dimensions just won't allow it.

No, not just one guy's thoughts. I bought a new 2007 Heritage softail and rode it 2 seasons . Loved the look and the sound and reliability, hated the rough ride and wobbly handling and lack of brakes so got rid of it. A sport tourer is badly needed in Harley's line up. something to compete with the Councours and GT BMW. The vrod motor is perfect for such a bike. I can't believe the number of mis-steps the Motor Company makes. Their market research much be pathetic. They always seem to be 10 years out of touch. They had the guts to pay for the Vrod then wimped put by trying to make it into a drag racer! The street rod was a half hearted admission of that mistake but half hearted attempts are equally destined for failure.
I suppose now the big effort will be to try to sell the "biker lifestyle and image" and over weight hawgs to nouveau riche Chinese and Indians, it boggles the mind.

[Northwoods_Maine]

Herb, I agree with you. It's a real stretch of my imagination to think that Buell would have ever captured a significant portion of the sportbike market. Too many European and Japanese companies already dominating that class, and many others have tried and failed. However, that said, they still need to create a line of bikes that appeal to the younger non-retro crowd. And they need to focus on light weight and agility. The wheelbase and weight of the V-Rod and it's sales history should tell them that. It's still a cruiser - a power cruiser maybe, but still a cruiser. The V-Rod hasn't exactly been a sales success.

What I'm about to say verges on being sacraligous to some, but I really think Willy G needs to go to pasture or split the key design responsibilites and put someone else in charge of developing a line of non-traditional HDs. A line of much lighter, higher performing/handling models such as a couple of "standards", an adventure tourer, and a sport tourer are what I think they need. If they produced a sport touring bike today that was competitive in function, weight, and price with the Kawasaki Concours, Yamaha FJ1300, etc., I'd have one in my garage for handling regular daily commutes and the occassional long weekend adventure with my wife aboard. Look at what Ducati has been able to do (with somewhat limited funds) in terms of diversifying their model portfolio to attract a wider customer base in recent years. Their best selling models are no longer sport bikes.

Just one guy's thoughts ...

[HarleyCreation]

There's lots of danger ahead for HD as they still don't have small displacement entry level bikes, or sport bikes that appeal to the younger generations. They can't live forever off the boomers and older crowd .... let's face it, we're all getting a little long in the tooth! Why do you think they now have two trikes in the line-up? It wasn't a style statement. There's a fast growing percentage of their customer base that physically can't ride a 2 wheeler any longer. Thank God none of us on here are gettin' any older!

Bike weight and size bothers me too. Every time a new updated model comes out it weighs more. Like dinosaurs grew and grew until they became extinct. Or like American cars with tail-fins of the late 1950s. Big motorcycles are assuming gargantuan proportion and near half-ton weights.

Of the Buell line, it was actually the Blast that I liked best. The ugly little orphan that ultimately got cubed to death. Harley missed a good bet there by not making a nostalgia model out of it with 21 Single or 1930s styling. That could have been a very cool machine under the H-D name.

Between Buell and H-D there wasn't much common ground. That's why I think Buell should have accepted the V-rod motor and done something essential with it. Not everybody wants a wannabe race bike. A sport touring V-rod Buell would have dropped nicely between the Electra-Glide and Buell's pure sport jobs.

The article makes it sound like Buell himself opted out of the V-rod motor project. That might have been a mistake. But only if he could have designed a handsome (not freakish) faired machine with hard bags weighing considerably less than Electra-Glide.

[HarleyCreation]

When most race and sport bike engineers speak of a tiny engine they are referring to a very compact layout. It's not a reference to displacement. The V-rod motor is way to long to even think about stuffing into a modern sporting chassis with a typical 55 inch wheel base. Maybe now Erik will get to build the motorcycles he wants to build.

Thanks for the clarification. Apparently I'm not up to snuff with modern lingo where tiny now means compact.

I wonder, if tiny now means compact what word is there for very small?

IMO a Buell sport-touring bike with the V-rod engine could have been a nice road machine. H-D has a model gap in that department and hanging "Harley-Davidson" on V-rod hasn't been an outstanding success. Putting V-rod into the Buell line would have avoided the "not a Harley-Davidson" label. Going after the pure sport bike market where the Japanese are so dominent was a daunting task for Buell. A sport-touring V-rod/Buell might have captured a market segment in an area where H-D is lacking and given the Buell brand more value to H-D's bosses.

But yes, according to the article Buell wanted a more compact motor and when V-rod got too big and heavy during development he opted out of the project. They should have gone with two versions of V-rod. Sporty and pure sport. Sort of like Nova was going to be a "family" of engines.

No, we probably haven't heard the last of Erik Buell.

[Northwoods_Maine]

Exactly, BMH. The V-Rod motor is not only oversized in it's overall dimensions, but is WAY to heavy for sportbike use. The only decent engine Eric ever had to work with is the new Rotax that was in the current 1125R model. I'm sure we haven't seen the last of him. Since that Rotax motor was designed and built specificly for the Buell, and Bombardier owns Rotax, there's a path there that, on the surface, seems obvious but not until his non-compete clause expires. Harley stock owners ought to be incensed that the motor company spent 10s of millions of dollars to close Buell down rather than to break even by selling Buell. The penalty paid to Rotax for not carrying our the full contract on that new motor was 8 figures in itself. The article said that the cost of closing Buell was equal to or greater than the entire investment in Buell over the last 25 years. So the shareholders pay because HD doesn't want their dealers to sell another brand.

I thought one of the more telling aspects of the story was that HD (through it's Financial Services div.) was so hard up for operating capital that they paid Warren Buffet 15% interest to borrow $600 million a year ago. Pretty hard to make money when you're paying 15% for money you've already lent as bike loans at 8%. There's lots of danger ahead for HD as they still don't have small displacement entry level bikes, or sport bikes that appeal to the younger generations. They can't live forever off the boomers and older crowd .... let's face it, we're all getting a little long in the tooth! Why do you think they now have two trikes in the line-up? It wasn't a style statement. There's a fast growing percentage of their customer base that physically can't ride a 2 wheeler any longer. Thank God none of us on here are gettin' any older!

[bmh]

When most race and sport bike engineers speak of a tiny engine they are referring to a very compact layout. It's not a reference to displacement. The V-rod motor is way to long to even think about stuffing into a modern sporting chassis with a typical 55 inch wheel base. Maybe now Erik will get to build the motorcycles he wants to build.

[HarleyCreation]

In the current (May 2010) issue of Cycle World is a in-depth article on the Buell motorcycle company ("Demise of Buell...") and its association with H-D, Inc. IMO it's the best thing that mag has printed in a long time.

Lots of inside info on how H-D treated Buell that tells plenty about the contortions of the modern Motor Company. Stuff I never heard before. Somewhat explained was why Buell never got the V-rod motor, something that's bugged me for years. The idea of putting a modified 1950s Sportster engine into a modern sport bike never did make much sense to me and some version of the V-rod seemed like a natural for Buell. But it never happened.

One thing I didn't understand was the description of the liquid-cooled Porsche (V-rod) motor that Erik Buell wanted for his sport bike models as being a "tiny" engine.

The article didn't give a size for it, but to me "tiny" means an engine like you'd find in a weed-trimmer or a small chainsaw. How that got by the writer and editor I can't quite figure. Unless it really was "tiny."

How small was it?

I visited Buell Motor Co. back around 1990 when he was located in an old service station in Mukwanago, Wis. I was going to write something but it never happened. He gave a good interview and altho I never cared for that syle of motorcycle much, you couldn't help but admire Erik Buell's enthusiasm. I wouldn't be surprised if he is snatched up by some foreign motorcycle company as he has a certain following and the name Buell is well known.