New Class??

[fabercycle]

William McClean,

I have the utmost respect for your opinion. I hope you can allow me to have mine.

I disagree that the founding fathers of the AMCA were as "anal " as what we have now.

There were never more incorrect bikes in the club than in the first 30 years. ( I believe that to be a fact, not opinion.)

I believe they wanted to keep old bikes together and running as viable machines, and provide a network to allow people to buy sell and trade parts, as a primary function.

While I appreciate, and respect winners circle bikes, and certainly, am making my living because of the "extra mile" my customers go to get it right, I believe that the judging, value, awards, resale value, are all factors that people are currently fighting, bitching, and back-stabbing about.

The more emphasis on judging, the more fighting, and bad feelings there is.


What happened to people enjoying their antique bikes?


I think the club has done a fine job of preserving correct bikes, and is continuing to.

The peer pressure from who I referred to as "correctness nazis" is what is causing the prices of parts to soar. The attitude, if a bike isn't perfect, is "Oh that's a piece of crap, made up from many different year junk!" Then everybody thinks they have to change every part on their bike to avoid criticism. You see it on this forum and others constantly....people picking on an ebay listing of a bike for sale, and seeing how many parts you can pick on "not being correct". (YOUR BIKE NEEDS ONLY TO PLEASE YOU, NO-ONE ELSE)

William, it is my opinion that your response, shows your intolerance of others, and their interpetation of what makes them happy about old motorcycles.....lighten up man, lifes'too short.

Hat's off to Matt for helping the club go in other directions that may acually include fun, instead of more drama, and bitching.


ps, Tommo, i already had this written , and submitted before I read your last post, and obviously agree.

[Tommo]

Friends,
This is real hard and there's no easy way to say what I'm going to post here but it's high time someone said this.

Nothing is ever gained by shooting barbs at individuals and when you stoop low enough to do so all forms of constructive interaction stops.
The only way progress is made is by discussing the issue not the person.
While everybody has a right to an opinion that individual does not have the right to pubically abuse another person.
When making a post please bear the above in mind and before you hit the submit reply button and please consider this;

"Treat other people as I expect to be treated myself"

I'm coming from 22 years in the Lions International movement including a stint as Zone Chairman and President of several other clubs

[Tommo]

Matt,
As an offshore member I don't want to comment on the pros or cons of this particular class but I do feel strongly about the way the Board goes about implementing these things and how they notify the general membership of the changes that directly affect them.
The first the general membership finds out about something like this is by finding it on a non AMCA web site and then and only then when all the claws are out and the proverbial hits the fan on this forum do the some of the board members come out and defend their actions.
It's strange that people who profess reluctance and/or ignorance as to the use of computors are suddenly there defending their actions.
This is the Official web site of the AMCA so serious concerns and questions arise when business of the AMCA appears on other web sites before it appears here.
Elsewhere Steve Slocombe has assured the membership that the board is listening to the concerns of the membership and taking action but instances like this still occur and leads one to wonder just how much the board is listening and if they are listening, how much notice they are taking of just how upset the general membership is.
No doubt the excuse of printing this release in the magazine will be wheeled out again but surely this incident is the best example the board can have to illustrate how effective this media is in getting the message out and in the future they should ensure that any information releases appear here first and not on some other clubs website.

The above post is intended as constructive criticism and I hope it is received in that manner.

Peter Thomson a concerned member.

[Matthew N. Olse]

[QUOTE=William McClean;93972]

The disturbing trend that has "come about lately" is not the preservation of examples of the machines, but rather the desire for inclusion of all machines, no mater how cobbled up the poor old pet has become, under the banner of " that's what the owners did " . The better for the harvesting of monies in the form of dues from the a broader group, as well as the forced increase in the price of parts as more people go looking for that feather head horn cover because it would looks so cool on my green paisley, Sportster powered Mustang.
/QUOTE]

This concept is about bringing two separate groups of people together that have a common interest in old bikes. I really don't see how this takes anything away from the preservation of stock bikes, in fact there is a ton of overlap of interest in both groups. I am not concerned with "harvesting dues" Seclusive and elitist attitudes go down a dead end street. I don't know if you have thought about it, or even if it is pertinent to you, but I am concerned about how many members will be around in forty or fifty years. I think that it is wise to make an attempt at being proactive rather than reactive.

For the sake of keeping this topic positive I would encourage you to direct all negative comments to my personal email at amcayouthprogram@hotmail.com or you can call me any time at work or on my cell. Both numbers are listed in the back of the magazine. Everybody in the world can read what you guys type on this site, and quite frankly it is embarrassing. We are supposed to be a group of old motorcycle enthusiasts not bunch of old hens that use this site for bickering or acting like a bunch of girls in middle school. Please use this forum as a positive tool, and if you have any concerns please feel free to hit me up.

[Matthew N. Olse]

Wow

Well Guys,

When I was running the free bike give away contest, I ran into a lot of kids that were building bikes with old engines. Even though these kids were interested in classic stock bikes, they couldn't necessarily afford them, so they worked with what they had. I met dozens of young guys that were riding neat bikes with old engines that fell into the antique category. Out of all the people that I met in this category they had one thing in common--they were really excited about old bikes, whether it be point bikes, bobbers, etc.

A lot of these people are doing the same thing that over half of our membership was doing back in the seventies-- building bikes and having fun with them. The big difference is that 30 years ago our membership was chopping up complete bikes, while today this new group seems to be finding an antique engine and starting from scratch.

The main goal of this trial run is to try and bring a group of younger people that are interested in old bikes together with a group of older people(our membership) and hopefully form some new friendships. There are a lot of benefits of being in the AMCA-- the road runs, the swapmeets, the free ads in the back of the magazine, but in my opinion the best one is our membership. Some of the best people I know are members of the AMCA, and I think that it would be short sighted to not try and do something to connect them with a younger generation of people that share a common interest.

I think that this is a good plan and worth while to give it a try. If it works and forms new friendships then it will be a success, if it is a total flop and off point it was still worth a try. I encourage all of the nay sayers to bite their tongue and see what happens before seeing how it turns out.
best,
Matt Olsen

[William McClean]

Diluting the Mission statement

The AMCA was not formed as a Custom Bike Club. The " correctness nazis " as you call them includes the founders, and the purpose of this club. A club that was established to preserve examples of the Motorcycle as they came off the dealer show room, creating a preserved , working timeline of the evolutuion of production machines. The purpose of this club Was to preserve that history. Not to preserve the Created History as dreamed up by anyone who has 2 wheels and a motor with a desire to modify.

There have always been custom shows and clubs. The AMCA is not one. The AMCA could always be distinquised by that difference and as a family type of club. The acceptance of custom builds delutes the mission of this club and lumps us in with the Rat Hole shows.

The disturbing trend that has "come about lately" is not the preservation of examples of the machines, but rather the desire for inclusion of all machines, no mater how cobbled up the poor old pet has become, under the banner of " that's what the owners did " . The better for the harvesting of monies in the form of dues from the a broader group, as well as the forced increase in the price of parts as more people go looking for that feather head horn cover because it would looks so cool on my green paisley, Sportster powered Mustang.

Question. Does the 8 track player have to be in working order to be judged for the Culture Club, Boy George Memorial Trophy ?

[Ohio-Rider]

Mr. Cotton and Mr. Faber, Thank you both for your last posts. You are both on my list of folks whom I some day wish to share a beer and a ride with.

Cotton, I think the prestige of the club got lost along the way quite awhile back. The jury is still out about how much integrity is left. Time will tell.
-Steve

[T. Cotten]

Tom!

Everybody has always had the right to play with their toys any way they want.

AMCA judging was set up to preserve history.
For generations it has fostered research and study, so that sincere enthusiasts could return historical pieces to authenticity.
That was how they played with their toys, and I wish I could have been one.

(The system also fostered enormous destruction of history, but that's another discussion.)

Judging grew to be a pathway to correct and enhance machines, without bike-on-bike competition. Criteria evolved as well, as objective information was collected and shared. The system matured.

But now there seems to be a need to make the AMCA a vanity fair.
Un-judgeable "I won" classes are made up just to pass out glory.

I guess its only human nature to want trophies. But the machine should be its own reward. Too many want a trophy to add to the cash-in reward, and not the reward of experience with the machine.

The end result is that the integrity and prestige of the AMCA is going down the drain.

....Cotten

[fabercycle]

It's taken a long time for me to get it straight in my mind......but, a motorcycle only has to make ONE person happy, "the owner".

Some owners spend 10 years searching for nuts and bolts to be factory correct (so-be-it), some owners want to build a bike starting with a speedometer they found (more power to 'em), some owners want to ride it and never wash it (to each his own), Some owners keep their original paint bike stuck away so no one can ever see it (whatever turns you on).

The bottom line is, different things make different people happy, and they need to do what makes them happy.

There has become an annoying trend in the last few years, of guys criticizing every bike that doesn't have the parts on it that came from the factory, and alot of people have gotten the idea that they need to comply in making these other people happy.

This is a spirit that has never historically been a biker attribute, and I can only hope that the "correctness nazis" can take a look at how they are adversely affecting alot of peoples' outlook of this hobby.

[stevekleincustom]

Hmmm

quote: Motorcycles have always been a form of personal expression.

After reading a few of our fellow AMCA members viewpoints I reflected on my own situation entering the sport. Matt Olsen is correct. Everyone is broke at a different level. I started at age nine lusting at a 57 Cushman Eagle that I could not afford. Was forced to ride very used Honda's until the early 90's when I was able to get an Evolution HD that was a dependable rider for my wife, daughters and I to enjoy. Was unable to start restoring a 48 Panhead until my early 40's due to kids education funds coming first. I agree that we all wish to keep the vintage restoration and judging pure when it comes to correct restorations or rustorations of good, real motorcycles. As only one member, I see no issue with having one class being made available to individuals that are not yet able to buy a total real machine and have the funds to restore it back to original state in an exacting fashion. I know many long term AMCA members who are on period correct modified machines (but not judgable machines) and have not completed the restoration yet due to missing parts or lack of funds at this time.... But they still show up at our events, support our road runs and swap meets. People will make the decision themselves if they feel more welcome at an Easyriders event or an AMCA event. Don't think our clubs officers intend to dilute the existing programs and would hope they do not.

[RichO]

Mr. Faber,

Thank you. You always seem to get the big picture. It's all about preserving motorcycle history. All of it. Just take joy in the PART you like, we'll take joy in the part we like. Some of us like it all. Same with cars, hotrods (period modifieds), and customs ( highly modified/personalized if you would). To each their own. Room for it all. By the way it's just an exibition class. My custom sits next to my period correct bobjob (bobber's are for fishing), which sets next to my stocker. Weird, they all get along.

[William McClean]

Custom Culture Club

Does any one besides me find it disconcerting that we have to find out about our Club and the directions it is being steered by announcements made to Other cyber sites, and no official word of it on the AMCA Club's site ?

Was this Culture Club announcement made on April 1st as part of the celebration ?

[fabercycle]

Cotten, I thought you've been doing this long enough to understand that old motorcycles are about more than perfect factory examples.

I'm not running out to enter bikes in this class.......but it's one of the first efforts that I've seen to acknowledge that 90% of guys with old bikes are more about riding them than looking at them.

[T. Cotten]

So an AMCA achievement will mean about as much as an Easyriders trophy.

....Cotten

[LouieMCman]

A few years ago we started what we called the Concourse D'Ordinaire on Saturday at the Eustis meet. It was for all the running bikes 35 years old that was not eligible for the national judging. We would normally get as many if not more than the show on Sunday.

We will be hosting the Concourse D'Ordinaire again at the new Southern National Meet in NC next month on Saturday after the field events. The show is for fun with plaques given out for a variety of classes such as most squalid, most chrome, least paint, etc. It's not limited to any years or anything else for that matter. Anything that runs and is close to 35 years old. So bring out those non junior and senior bikes for all to see. Thanks.