New Judging Disclaimer Explained Comment

[Paps]

The disclaimers true message is..... "What ever you do...Don't tell anyone that [ WE ] the AMCA put a point score on your machine". Where does this mindset come from ?? As I stated basically before. Any disclaimer, if any...., should be signed only by an officer, such as the president himself, which holds the club blameless for the accuracy of its record of scoring on any particular machine. And this disclaimer is a paragraph within the the award presented. As far as I am concerned...the club can word this legal disclaimer any way they wish. They are the endorser of said disclaimer, not the machines owner. Paps

[pete reeves]

Most people I think would agree that our club needs to protect itself with a disclaimer and that not having protection would negligent.

From previous posts it appears that the main reason for opposition to this new disclaimer is because it contains threats and threatening language?
I have taken the time to carefully read though this document 3 or 4 times now and although I have to agree that it appears long winded. I cannot find any threats. Am I missing something?
To me it just seems like a long winded way of absolving/protecting our club from any threat of litigation.
As far as the owner is concerned nothing has changed. Any bike that receives an AMCA judging award will still be more desirable/more saleable than one that has not. Owners will still tell potential buyers about the awards the bike received and mention its AMCA status in any advertising. There is nothing in this disclaimer that says the club can or will do anything to stop members using the AMCA name when selling a bike. This disclaimer is just a long winded way of saying if a dispute should arise between a buyer and a seller the dispute remains between them.

Pete Reeves 860

[INLINE4NUT]

Sorry day for the Club when you need disclaimers !!! More proof the club is moving away from the membership !!!

[bmh]

It is very tough to sue a private party for misrepresenting a used vehicle when they sell it to you.Unless they have altered the VIN or tampered with the odometer reading (which is technically OK as long as they disclose it before the sale) there is nothing to sue them over. And at the end of the day that prized 1911 Indian or whatever is still just a used vehicle in the eyes of the law. The rule buyer beware applies here. So will our legal dept. now expand so it will have the means necessary to track down every schlep who puts a bike on e-bay, or craigs list, or the supermarket bulletin board and states in the description that it has won one of our awards? What type of actions will be taken against these individuals? While we are at it we better stop giving out the award badges that are placed on the license plates immediately and demand the return of all that have been issued, they are after all visible in the photos of a machine that is for sale. Seriously, what nonsense. Again I say that pre-registration with the submission of photos, including one of the VIN would be a better way to go than this most likely non legally binding piece of crap. This would provide opportunity for the most knowledgeable ( supposedly) judging committee members to screen out the questionable or undesirable machines. And provide an avenue for the owner to provide documentation to try and prove his case if he feels or knows they are in error. Of course this would actually be work. Having someone sign a piece of BS legalize isn't, so regardless of what might work better, or be in the best interest of the contributors ( that's us) i have a feeling this is the way it's going to be.

[fillibuster]

Sorry day for the Club when you need disclaimers !!! More proof the club is moving away from the membership !!!

I prefer to believe that our leadership understands the basics of our association, primarily, how to throw a party! What brings us together to have a good time? and what precautions or rules of society must we follow in order to have a good time within proper boundaries? It's a tough balance sometimes, but the party will go on, somewhere, somehow! We still have a great plenty to celebrate. Fatten up the calf!

[Paps]

OK......KISS ....Keep it simple stupid ! If a member signature is going to be required, place it on a document such as the following. Try this disclaimer on for size. Paps

AMCA JUDGING DISCLAIMER

1. The AMCA has an established system for judging its members' antique motorcycles which are 35 years old and older. The established system has been set up, solely for the use of AMCA members, who preserve antique motorcycles, as closely as possible to the respective factory standards, as determined from time to time by the AMCA, at its absolute, exclusive, and sole discretion, and for the purpose of accommodating the judging of its members' antique motorcycles.
2. The number of points and judging classification, placed on a motorcycle by AMCA judges who are assigned to judge an antique motorcycle, at a sanctioned AMCA event, are in the best judgment, of the judges who judge the motorcycle, and are not an indication or a guarantee of the motorcycle's completeness, correctness, or value, when such is compared to the respective factory standard, adopted by the AMCA and its judges.
3. The AMCA does not guarantee the accuracy or sufficiency of the judges' determination, given to any antique motorcycle, at any sanctioned AMCA event.
4 Therefore, regardless of how any AMCA judge or judges, has scored a motorcycle, the AMCA will not be held liable, any shape or form, for any reason or cause, to any person, persons, or party.

Event
Date
Antique motorcycle being judged:
Make: _
Model: _
Year:
--------------------
Engine Number: _

AMCA Member
Print Name of Member
AMCA #

I, the undersigned, have read and fully understand the terms of this judging disclaimer. I also understand I will receive a copy, of this self endorsed disclaimer, immediately after placing my signature upon said disclaimer.

Member Signature Date
Witness Signature Date

[45OZ]

This ALL sounds like another Lawyer weaseling in a way for HIMSELF to make money, off of an un-founded & un- proven fear of another weasel lawyer trying to make money for himself with a frivolous lawsuit,
you know the difference between a dead lawyer & a dead dog in the road don't ya?
there is skid marks in front of the DOG !!!
remember once the lawyers get involved it gets ALL ****ed up !!
Oz
#7430

[servicardenise]

Hey Joe are you going to Oley? Where do you set up?
Denise

[45OZ]

hey Denisse OF Course I am going to OLEY !!!!
I set up with my friend Jon we have 2 spots I'm not sure where they are because they have been moved he told me, I'll pm my cell # to ya
Hope to see ya & hang out some
Looking forward to it
Oz

[hd4ever]

Sorry day for the Club when you need disclaimers !!! More proof the club is moving away from the membership !!!

Isn't it funny that we need a disclaimer now that we have an inexperienced person as Chief Judge. This will probably also mean some of our top judges won't show up for judging either.

When we had experience at the top and they had a good circle of experienced judges, they didn't need a disclaimer. Hmmmm

[45OZ]

Isn't it funny that we need a disclaimer now that we have an inexperienced person as Chief Judge. This will probably also mean some of our top judges won't show up for judging either.

When we had experience at the top and they had a good circle of experienced judges, they didn't need a disclaimer. Hmmmm

That's an interesting observation, Hmmm, Maybe NOW would be a good Time for the Chief judge to let us all know why HE feels is expertise is in question by the bod, If it wern't there would be no need for a disclaimer.

Nah he won't comment on here the Lawyers won't let him !!!
Betcha I'm right

[jmanjeff]

Most people I think would agree that our club needs to protect itself with a disclaimer and that not having protection would negligent.

From previous posts it appears that the main reason for opposition to this new disclaimer is because it contains threats and threatening language?
I have taken the time to carefully read though this document 3 or 4 times now and although I have to agree that it appears long winded. I cannot find any threats. Am I missing something?
To me it just seems like a long winded way of absolving/protecting our club from any threat of litigation.
As far as the owner is concerned nothing has changed. Any bike that receives an AMCA judging award will still be more desirable/more saleable than one that has not. Owners will still tell potential buyers about the awards the bike received and mention its AMCA status in any advertising. There is nothing in this disclaimer that says the club can or will do anything to stop members using the AMCA name when selling a bike. This disclaimer is just a long winded way of saying if a dispute should arise between a buyer and a seller the dispute remains between them.

Pete Reeves 860

1. The AMCA has an established system for judging its members' antique motorcycles that is those motorcycles which are 35 years old and older. The established system has been set up solely for the use of AMCA members who preserve antique motorcycles as closely as possible to the respective factory standards as determined from time to time by the AMCA at its absolute, exclusive, and sole discretion, and for the purpose of accommodating the judging of its members' antique motorcycles. The established system is not to be used by AMCA members or non-members to affect, determine, or influence the value of any antique motorcycle or for any other reason except as stated above.

[pete reeves]

Geff.
There is nothing in the paragraph that you have highlighted that constitutes a threat. Simply put this part of the disclaimer is saying our judging system should not be used as a sales tool. There is no mention that the club has any policy to enforce this rule or is there any mention of penalties for non compliance with
the rule. NO ENFOCEMENT, NO PENALTIES= NO THREAT.

Every member of this Forum had to sign a disclaimer when they joined this forum agreeing amongst other things that they would not make any hateful and threatening posts yet it looks like some members have no problem ignoring this rule.

Pete Reeves 860

[jmanjeff]

You add the word should in front of "not" AND that changes every thing but the word "Should" is not in the Disclaimer .

The established system is not to be usedby AMCA members or non-members to affect, determine, or influence the value of any antique motorcycle or for any other reason except as stated above.

Dictionary: not (nŏt) pronunciation

Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary

adv.
In no way; to no degree. Used to express negation, denial, refusal, or prohibition: I will not go. You may not have any.

[jmanjeff]

And I Have Nerve Made Any Hateful Or Threatening Post To Any Here.