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Sylvester Howard Roper
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3-words
Better yet--Robert.M.KeatingComment
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Set the record straight
How about ......Who is Greg Harrison?, (See AMCA mag. spring issue page 8) what is he doing with history and why is he the AMCA editor? Bring back Rich Shunk any time please.
What is a Motorcycle to you?
Is it a two wheel piece of transportation or is it a four wheeler with two of its wheels fixed in tandom? To me a motorcycle is many things but most importantly it is a machine that I like to lay into corners and enjoy the physics that take place when bending it over as far as I dare, until you have dragged a knee on the ground you have not experience a motorcycle to its fullest capabilities. Could you imagine riding one of Americas most popular "motorcycle roads" Deals Gap on a "motorcycle' that did not lean into a corner. I for one am truly sorry but Gottlieb Daimler did not build a motorcycle at all let alone the first motorcycle. Gottlieb Daimler built a test stand that does not pass the test for a motorcycle. For me if it tips out instead of leaning in to a turn it is not a motorcycle. Boats lean in airplanes lean in. On land Gottlieb Daimlers, trains, trucks, cars, wagons, anything on four wheels tips outside of the bend in the road a truly discomforting feeling. History revisionists be dammed. The Smithsonian is where you go if you want to see the roots of the motorcycle not the lumber yard.
The original Daimler did not accidentally catch fire it was used for a bon fire (sorry that was rude). Sylvester Roper was the epitome of the American motorcyclist. He wanted to be a biker so bad he invented the motorcycle, tore up the town, upset the locals and their horses then made refinements to his machine to the point where he became the first motorcycle fatality late in life racing the clock on the boards. He lived breathed and died for motorcycles Sylvester Roper is the man and I stand by my words does any one wish to dispute the facts? Bring it on. Personally I believe if Sylvester lived next door to the Davidson's we would be riding Roper Davidson's today.
Perhaps its the name Sylvester ask the late great, original Silent Gray Fellow about that. These statements are as I have read into history and are not from my personal account of the facts I do not intend to anger anyone, so relax if you can not face the truth.
JoeComment
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Views from North Cecil: 1895-6 Keating Wheel Company Bicycle
views-from-north-cecil.blogspot.com/2010/03/1895-6-ke...Comment
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Joe,
R.M.Keating, of the Keating Wheel Company, Middletown, Ct. built his first motorcycle in 1901. A motor of his own design, and with a two piece m/c frame(not a bicycle frame). Indian came out with thier first example working from the tool room of the Keating Wheel Company, in the same time span. Which, ironically was almost identical, other than the camelback fuel tank. Were still in research mode on most of this, but gaining.
The first three patents on the ever famous Harley-Davidson patent decal, belong to "Keating" and Harley was sued in 1917 for mis-use of these patents-Keating won! And in 1906, Keating sued Indian(Hendee Manufacturing) in 1906 for the same infractions! Some consider "The Keating" America's first motorcycle, and perhaps, somewhat "lawsuit" happy--fyi-BPK!!
PS: Give it h_ll on the cannonball!!!Comment
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Lets celebrate Gottlieb Daimler for what they were and are, and for all their accomplishments not what people misinterpreted them for. Gottlieb Daimler today Mercedes Benz, one of the finest automobile companies in the world. Never to my limited knowledge did they build a motorcycle. Perhaps they should.
JoeComment
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How did I miss out on that history lesson in the past? Thanks for the input.Originally posted by BPK!! View Post
JoeComment
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I never could understand how anyone could call that wooden beast a motorcycle. And what 6 miles per hour? No respectable biker would make something that slow. Why make something self propelled go slower than a bicycle? Just something with no lean and so slow make the Ducati in you boil. I agree the wooden beast was no motorcycle....Louie
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YouTube >>> LouieMCmanComment
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I see what you're getting at and mostly agree. With 4 wheels and built on a big heavy lumber frame I've never seen Daimler's "freak" as the true ancestor of the motorcycle, altho it gets credit for it. Marty Rosenblum called it the "first Volkswagan" and that remains the best description.Originally posted by Slojo View Post
A true "motor-cycle" is a 2 wheeled vehicle where balance and gyroscopic effect are essential elements. Roper may have captured some of that with his early steam-driven "bone-shaker" circa 1869. But how fast and nimble that iron-shod, steam-driven device was is open to debate. Someday we should investigate that machine more closely. Roper's 2nd machine c1895 was closer to the mark, but steam wasn't the way ahead.
The motorcycle as we know it developed as a gasoline-powered safety bicycle. That's where Pennington was ahead of everyone else (except possibly Millett). And Pennington DID live next door to Harley and the Davidsons.
When Pennington was headquartered in Racine in 1895, he took "The Motor Cycle" (his brand name for it) to Milwaukee where he held a brief but impressive speed trial on Grand Avenue. News reports state he scorched the asphalt there at near mile-a-minute speeds and that the dazzled crowd was so big that mounted cops on horses had a hard time keeping the people back.
It's a fact that young 14 year old Bill Harley and Arty Davidson lived just a few blocks away from Pennington's 2-wheeled speed display. If I had to bet, I would lay odds they were there. Sometimes the "gray ghost" or Fate does step in to lend a hand.
Pennington was an insane genius who somehow knew that a successful motorcycle must be simple, light, nimble, fast, and handsome to adhere to the bicycle ideal. Pennington branded the concept and name of his outlandish device into the imagination of every bicycle man in 1893-96 America and Great Britain. And also his greatest rivals, the Count de Dion and Georges Bouton, whose landmark engine turned dreams into reality. Those guys did go on to build the first successful motorcycles, but Pennington had already shown them the blueprint.
Although Roper was a pioneer and deserves recognition, I don't think he had that kind of influence. He probably wasn't crazy enough. Afterall, the notion of strapping a loud, stinking, cantankrous gasoline engine to a bicycle borders on lunacy.
At least Roper is in the Motorcycle Hall of Fame. Pennington can't get in. He is too much of an outlaw or something. Kick him up a notch for that dubious distinction too.
PS: Thanks for bringing this up, Joe. The real origin of the motorcycle is one of the most interesting but poorest understood features of our hobby and sport. Since William S. Harley's middle name was Sylvester, so you might be onto something.Last edited by HarleyCreation; 03-30-2010, 12:06 PM.Comment
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Because you haven't read "At the Creation" closely enough. We revealed the story of Keating and those mysterious early patent dates on the Harley decal there for the first time.Originally posted by Slojo View PostComment
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Herb we are in this together
"Marty Rosenblum called it the "first Volkswagan" and that remains the best description". BEST THING MARTY EVER SAID.
But how fast and nimble that iron-shod, steam-driven device was is open to debate. ONE MUST LEARN TO WALK BEFORE HE LEARNS TO RUN.
The motorcycle as we know it developed as a gasoline-powered safety bicycle. That's where Pennington was ahead of everyone else (except possibly Millett). And Pennington DID live next door to Harley and the Davidsons
PENNINGTON, SCHIESTER? I DONT THINK SO PERHAPS A VISIONEST, NOT A GOOD BUISNESS MAN GIVE HIM A POSITION IN THE HALL HE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THE MOST SUCCESSFUL MOTORCYCLE ENTREPRENEUR BUT HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN BRINGING US MOTORCYCLES. After Loiue built a motorcycle with limited success, it still is a motorcycle.Comment
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Short memory. I read your book with great interest just did not remember it as well as I should have , that was seven years ago.Originally posted by HarleyCreation View Post
JoeComment
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