Online Motorcycle Registry

[jurassic]

I know i've mentioned this before,but what the antique motorcycle world needs is a registry for rare motorcycles.We already have informal registrys out there for certain brands and models. crocker,harley WR,broughs.The best time to do this is now.We have a way to connect to every amca member out there,and i'm typing on it right now.Ten years ago you could not have done this,i know ,i tried to, but without the amca involved ,and alot of people still not having computers ,it failed. For it to work it must be able to host pictures, it must only be accessed by club members. Any member who wants to submit a bike for judging must be a member of the registry,or anyone who wants to have the coveted AMCA registered pedigree ,online for anyone to see, must eventually have their bike judged at a meet.The process of earning the pedigree ,will also include the scrutiny of the members as a whole.Each bike submitted for registration will have its own online "thread" of sorts. In this bike's thread the owner can document everything he has done to the bike ,or pictures of how he found it,detailed pics of every part of the bike,he may even just restore his 1924 ace online at the registry in front of the judges,the marquee experts,and every other owner of a 1924 ace in the world. Not only good documentation for the 1924 ace owner ,but a wealth of knowledge captured for the next guy that needs to restore a 1924 ace.Of course ,the judges,and marquee experts ,and any other member of the amca registry would be able to weigh in on a bike being submitted ,adding yet more info on the machine,or pointing out a flaw. Thus helping the bikes owner out ,long before it goes to the judging feild. Also helping out the judge who has to judge the bike without touching it. This will give the amca an online standard for everyone to strive for. The registry would not only provide a standard of what a correct machine is ,but will also document the amount of them that are left out there. We can document all our experts knowledge,before they kick. We got alot of great experts here ,but think how many more we could get ,and the amount of knowledge shared if the club actually told people about it.If this website was given the right amount of advertising ,and backing from the club it would surely be a popular site, and popular sites pay for themselves. Especially when all the content is free from the general membership.We have been doing this on this forum for years ,and its worked great.Too bad most of the members have never heard of it.Is it still not time for this ,or should we wait another ten years?

[Greg H]

Great proposal, Jurassic
I for one would second those thoughts, the online side of the AMCA could be so much more, as you say the opportunity to record the knowledge of existing members will slip away "time waits for no man"
Could be a big undertaking tho, thought reference photo`s of winners circle was about to start this year, but may have changed with recent events ?

[Northwoods_Maine]

I can't think of a single new feature of the AMCA and/or this site that would be of more significant value than the proposed registry. The registry alone has the potential to increase membership. Sounds like lots of work but it's just like they say about eating an elephant - one bite at a time.

[AFJ]

I know i've mentioned this before,but what the antique motorcycle world needs is a registry for rare motorcycles.We already have informal registrys out there for certain brands and models. crocker,harley WR,broughs.The best time to do this is now.We have a way to connect to every amca member out there,and i'm typing on it right now.Ten years ago you could not have done this,i know ,i tried to, but without the amca involved ,and alot of people still not having computers ,it failed. For it to work it must be able to host pictures, it must only be accessed by club members. Any member who wants to submit a bike for judging must be a member of the registry,or anyone who wants to have the coveted AMCA registered pedigree ,online for anyone to see, must eventually have their bike judged at a meet.The process of earning the pedigree ,will also include the scrutiny of the members as a whole.Each bike submitted for registration will have its own online "thread" of sorts. In this bike's thread the owner can document everything he has done to the bike ,or pictures of how he found it,detailed pics of every part of the bike,he may even just restore his 1924 ace online at the registry in front of the judges,the marquee experts,and every other owner of a 1924 ace in the world. Not only good documentation for the 1924 ace owner ,but a wealth of knowledge captured for the next guy that needs to restore a 1924 ace.Of course ,the judges,and marquee experts ,and any other member of the amca registry would be able to weigh in on a bike being submitted ,adding yet more info on the machine,or pointing out a flaw. Thus helping the bikes owner out ,long before it goes to the judging feild. Also helping out the judge who has to judge the bike without touching it. This will give the amca an online standard for everyone to strive for. The registry would not only provide a standard of what a correct machine is ,but will also document the amount of them that are left out there. We can document all our experts knowledge,before they kick. We got alot of great experts here ,but think how many more we could get ,and the amount of knowledge shared if the club actually told people about it.If this website was given the right amount of advertising ,and backing from the club it would surely be a popular site, and popular sites pay for themselves. Especially when all the content is free from the general membership.We have been doing this on this forum for years ,and its worked great.Too bad most of the members have never heard of it.Is it still not time for this ,or should we wait another ten years?

From what I know of the various makes and models of old bikes which I have been involved with over many years - including one make you mention - I think that this project you propose would be a great deal of effort and in the end a complete waste of time.

There are people who "know" a particular make of old bike, but there are, in my experience, far more who "think they know" and get most of their information from second or third hand sources of questionable reliability.

Most of the "one make" clubs of less common motorcycle brands have registries of the existing bikes owned by members. Some of these clubs have factory records regarding the build specification and dispatch of individual motorcycles. Others have more general information on production numbers of each make, model, and specification variation. These are valuable references for their members. A few clubs even provide spare parts for various models to the original specifications of the original manufacturer.

I doubt that the AMCA has within its membership enough expertise, money or voluntary capability to begin to gather, code, manage and put on the internet such information as these clubs currently have compiled. I say this after over 30 years of membership in the AMCA. I'm not trying to run down the AMCA, but from what I have seen, particularly in the last few years, the AMCA needs to concentrate on its "core business" of the various services it has long provided to members, some of which need substantial improvement.

AFJ

[flat-happy]

personally i would love to have access to a registry like this. the problem i see is this. i have talked to and know several collectors around the country and talked to them about this. all i have talked to would not want the location of their motorcycle or collection to be public knowledge. even if only members know, they talk to other people who are non members and these things are getting so expensive now i think there will be an increase in thefts in years to come. i think a few are documented on this site. just my 2 cents worth but a valid point to take into consideration would be the security of the registry.

[rwm]

it's a great idea.potential disputes can be hashed out long before bikes hit the field.

[vince_A]

I was whining on the web one night that there was not a registry for BMW R2's, so I got "volunteered" to build and maintain one. I think breaking it up into smaller bites is the way to go, if a format and specs were settled first the day to day stuff could go to enthusiasts and the "pieces" would "mesh together" easily enough.

Unclviny

[Northwoods_Maine]

Flat-Happy - I don't know of any reason the registry would have to identify the owner and/or address. Just have the info categorized by manufacturer / make / year / serial number / etc. Maybe have it set up so that an inquirer could PM the owner without having access to the owner's personal info. Owner's could set up a different name for the registry that doesn't connect to their regular screen name. I agree that most wouldn't want others to know who has what, where ....but there should be a solution to avoid that.

[Robert Luland]

Lonnie I agree with you that a registry is needed and the time is now. AFJ it wouldn’t cost much at all. There are a zillion software packages out there that are set up for this and there dirt cheap. The owner is doing all the inputting. As far as security goes? I understand the fear the membership have over their babies but the data base could be by membership number only. It would be up to you as the owner to provide anything further. You’d be able to go on the forum if you needed to contact that person though the private message system. This would be a total win, win opportunity for the club. Bob L

[Lonnie]

What you are suggesting is an on-line version of what I am told Red Fred evisions doing for the AMCA judging process, his idea being to install it on laptops available as reference for the judges at every meet. Your idea is even better in that it makes that information available to a member in the build process which would simplify and make less expensive the build, since there would be no need for do-overs.

Some of the information on certain models is on the web now if only one know where to look, an example being Chris Haynes' website showing good H-D numbers (and a few bad ones also).
For those areas where confusion and discrepancies arise, an AMCA-approved authority could make the call.

As an example, even the greatest H-D restoration guide out there, "How to Restore Your Harley-Davidson" has known errors. With no information otherwise readily available, mistakes in the restoration (or rustoration) process are constantly perpetuated. Your idea would greatly help in establishing a final authority.

This type of knowledge base is sorely needed for many of the new models now entering the 35-year age if they are to be given the scrutiny that the American bikes are constantly given. As has been noted, model-specific clubs could accumulate their knowledge and add to the database.

This is one of the best ideas I have read on this forum - the technology is out there, go for it!

[LouieMCman]

HD Sport Model Registry

Check out this registry link below for HD Sport Models from 1919-1923. It was created about 10 years ago by our own Woody Carson and Peter Jones from England. It's funny that the AMCA logo and contacts used to be on the registry but dissappeared a couple years ago. Maybe after Woody died? Anyway is this the kind of registry your talking about? Lots of info on one obscure model only.

http://www.harley-register.com/index.html

[AFJ]

Check out this registry link below for HD Sport Models from 1919-1923. It was created about 10 years ago by our own Woody Carson and Peter Jones from England. It's funny that the AMCA logo and contacts used to be on the registry but dissappeared a couple years ago. Maybe after Woody died? Anyway is this the kind of registry your talking about? Lots of info on one obscure model only.

http://www.harley-register.com/index.html

While there is a good deal of information on the H-D sport models, I do not see how such information as is online there is going to be of much help in determining the correct specification when undertaking a restoration or to judges looking for a "correct type" against which to judge a bike under the AMCA approach.

As another poster pointed out, there are many relatively inexpensive computer programs in which data can be poured for online presentation. However the major work, in my view, comes in entering and "quality control" of the data so that it is comparable to other data. Much of what I have seen over the years in such data bases is of poor quality since it has been sent in by individuals who cannot accurately read the various numbers, take clear, well exposed pictures, or describe clearly the bike they have in their possession.

Even the documents prepared by supposedly qualified (and paid) antique vehicle appraisers and the auction descriptions of supposed expert valuers are too often inaccurate, even as to model and year, let alone specification details. And I can recall, not too long ago, at a bike show where I was called away from our museum display booth to advise a judging panel as to the correctness of the actual model and year of a motorcycle displayed for judging as a 1940 BMW military model. I am no great expert on the "Bikes Made Weird" but the supposed 1940 BMW military single was easily determined as a post-war East German made EMW doctored up to be a pre-war R35 BMW.

Recently a US antique motorcycle auction sold a 30s British single under an incorrect model number and therefore an incorrect year. Presumably the vending owner did not know what the bike was and the auction house did not do its homework. I wonder if the buyer has discovered it - yet?

I had a case where a prospective purchaser of an old bike sent me a couple of pictures asking if I could confirm that it was a rare mid-30s Douglas single - of which only a handful of examples exist. While the bike said "Douglas" on the tank and it was painted in the Douglas colours, it was, in reality, a 1946-48 James ML "Famous James" bike sold in the thousands in the US and Canadian markets after WWII. But someone had gone to quite a lot of trouble to "fake" an entire bike.

AFJ
amca #674

[jurassic]

i think this is the precise reason the AMCA should take over this kind of online experiment. while the expertise of the experts and judges will be held true ,the input of the general membership will also be useful.perhaps the general membership has an original example of an opposed twin,that they can share with the registry,maybe just copies of an owners manual. the potential restorer will be able to take all the information in the opposed twin section ,and make an informed decision on how to restore his bike. he can take the good advice ,and the bad advice ,and the pictures and the literature,and restore his bike to the best of his abilities ,thanks to a general concensus from the entire AMCA membership. what more could a novice ask for from a world class club. of course only the AMCA could convince 10 thousand people to take part in the future of antique motorcycles ,and be able to inform the enthusiasts that come after us what is real and what is not. or we can stroke our ego's and let the history go away day after day.just in the last few years ,i've seen at least a dozen of our best and brightest lost. in ten years nobody will know nothing about sh*t.even you knuck, pan and chief guys will be wandering around lost,why, because nobody documented this great motorcycle revival we have all been privelaged to live thru ,these last 30 years.we got the experts,we got the judges ,we got the membership numbers,we have the knowledge. give us a place to put it and we will put it there.

[Greg H]

AMCA moved forward with free online library down load access hopefully encouraging members to also add to it.
Lots of info/pics out there, but scattered to the four winds, a lot of it AMCA judged machines (Winners circle plaques attatched) photos taken by passers by at meets then posted on photo hosting sites like flickr/photobucket etc, a shame not to find it on the AMCA site itself!
My interest is in the Indian marque
Maybe a Register over time could produce evidence of the earliest known/ latest known numbers that survive of a particular model /year, even define size of build batch battery v Magneto
The above just an example or is this already known info?
Seems at present a guy can post a question about correct detail and wait a long time a reply ( if ever) very discouraging for "newbies"
Same with most marque/specialist forums, the regulars/old hands get tired of answering same basic ( to them) questions.

[fillibuster]

I'm one of those newbies. Been a member 20 years, but just now finally into a project that should follow the discipline of "correct" for as long as can be sustained, hopefully to the Jr. 2nd, anyway. My favorite coaches are 200 miles away and don't play here, and admittedly they are human.
Should I wing it and start a thread titled, "everything you wanted to ask about a 37 Sport Scout"?? My hope would be that someone would show me the reference avenues, so I can better help myself. Also, some of the pix I've seen have "questionable" details that cannot render confident proof of what is correct.