The oddball Har-Dav Serial Number thread!

[HarleyCreation]

I'm starting a new thread so not to clog Joe's Cannonball thread. But please feel free to post about any other vintage Harley-Davidson model or serial number you don't understand or can't figure out. Photos would be a BIG help.

RE: Joe's 1914 "H-7762-H" Twin motor

Joe, thanks much for posting pix of motor's belly numbers. Your motor has added to our knowledge about H-D numbering.

Joe said: "This 1914 engine case in question has not been modified. I was told that the H stood for fortruck, A three wheeler with two wheels and a basket or box of some sort in front (True or false I don't know)."

But I don't think it's a Harley "Truck" forecar motor and here's why:

Orig. H-D data notes state:

For 1914:
"Mod. 10-G (Truck forecar): Number followed by EH or H preceeded by T, Two speed forecar."

For 1915:
Mod. 11-G (Truck forecar): "T" prefix = "Truck w/Bosch mag.
Mod. 11-G (Truck forecar): "LT" prefix = "Truck w/Remy gen.

"T" and "LT" was the Truck prefix.

I don't know what the "H" prefix means. Only that I believe that it's original to that motor and meant something to Harley-D, so it's important to us too. Maybe in time we can figure it out. Sure hope so.

[HarleyCreation]

Why drop letter on belly number?

After seeing a good closeup of the side numbers in conjunction with the belly numbers, they sure appear factory. I still am a little perplexed with the H prefix. The numbers must have been stamped on a Friday with the skewing, but I suppose anytime you enter in the human element, you enter in variables.

I agree that this "H" prefix motor is original and authentic and don't know what it means either. But it means something!

Notice how the "H" prefix was NOT included on the belly numbers, but only the suffix letter.

What was Harley's reasoning for dropping it like that?

Do you have or know of any other letter prefix engine in existence from this period? If so, did they drop the letter prefix from the belly number like on this "H-7762-H" motor?

[pete reeves]

What about this One ?

Pete Reeves 860

[HarleyCreation]

What about this One ?

Pete Reeves 860

Excellent "F" prefix & "H" suffix motor!

Can you also post the belly number too?

(I think we know this one.)

Thanks.

[HarleyCreation]

Can we?

Can we get a peek at the belly number for "F-12339-H"?

That would help tell us if H-D routinely dropped the letter prefix on the belly number (as on Joe's "H" prefix motor) or maybe sometimes left it on. c1912-1914 Harleys are still mystery years regarding serial numbering.

Details like this will add to a more complete data base over time, possibly leading to a guidebook of sorts.

Thanks.

[glaser 31]

here is 2 that I have, 1 have the number : U9 555
and the other one has : K4 690
you can see them here
http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/z...7.jpg&newest=1


http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/z...9.jpg&newest=1

[HarleyCreation]

If you find these numbers when you are looking,plese let me know
19R1432*
28jdl930*
29jda998*

No offense, but according to Factory data none of these three numbers conform to standard practice.

Were they stamped in Denmark or maybe some sort of weird one-offs?????

19R1432 -- There are no "R" stamped motor numbers listed for 1919.

28jdl930 -- If that means "JDL" and not 28-JD-1930 (is the "l" an L or a 1?), again we run into problems. Factory numbers for JDL stamped motors started with "1000." There should not be any in the "900s." Could this motor be "28-JD-1930?"

29jda998 -- Problems here too. For 1929 no "JDA" stamped motors are listed. We have to go back to 1923 to find motors stamped "JDA" ("A" motor). And again, motor numbers in 1929 started at "1000." There shouldn't have been any in the "900s."

Are these numbers possibly spurious ones? Restamps? Blank cases stamped by Friis-Hansen or somebody else in Europe? Something that Harley did special for Europe? Whatever they are, they are flying beneath Harley's normal engine numbering radar system. Interesting problem.

[Lonnie]

Herbert, he may not be showing the last digits of these case numbers, indicated with an asterisk, so that what you are reading as 900 could be 9000?

[HarleyCreation]

Herbert, he may not be showing the last digits of these case numbers, indicated with an asterisk, so that what you are reading as 900 could be 9000?

Thanks.

That would explain the deviant numbers.

Glaser, did you not provide the full number? Do they all contain one more digit as Lonnie suggested?

[Tommo]

I've got a drive side crankcase half that has the number 6003 DG and a belly number of 6003 DG.
I'm having trouble getting a clear enough digital photo but as soon as I do get some good ones I will post them.
Is this of interest and what you want?

[23JDCA 808]

28jdl930 -- If that means "JDL" and not 28-JD-1930 (is the "l" an L or a 1?), again we run into problems. Factory numbers for JDL stamped motors started with "1000." There should not be any in the "900s." Could this motor be "28-JD-1930?"

29jda998 -- Problems here too. For 1929 no "JDA" stamped motors are listed. We have to go back to 1923 to find motors stamped "JDA" ("A" motor). And again, motor numbers in 1929 started at "1000." There shouldn't have been any in the "900s."

Are these numbers possibly spurious ones? Restamps? Blank cases stamped by Friis-Hansen or somebody else in Europe? Something that Harley did special for Europe? Whatever they are, they are flying beneath Harley's normal engine numbering radar system. Interesting problem.

I have heard that numbers less than 1000 were for special applications. My 23JDCA 808 came with a hub on the output for a propeller; the fellow's father had planned to use it on a pusher ice boat. The engine had been run, so the hub may have been added at some point. There have been kits available to do this in the past. ...bill

[Sargehere]

I have heard that numbers less than 1000 were for special applications. My 23JDCA 808 came with a hub on the output for a propeller; the fellow's father had planned to use it on a pusher ice boat. The engine had been run, so the hub may have been added at some point. There have been kits available to do this in the past. ...bill

You're referring to the light homebuilt airplane reduction gear kits, for both Henderson Fours and popular v-twins. About 2:1 gearboxes that bolted to the output sides of the engines. They were sold in "Popular Mechanics" and such magazines in the '20s and '30s. Those magnificent men in their flying machines! No doubt, many more were dreamed of, planned, and even started construction, than took to the sky in those days.
Doc Patt used to bring a Henderson motor with gearbox and propellor to National Meets. It was mounted on a stand and Doc tied it to a stout tree, and started it up!
No guard or anything on the propellor, just intelligent, self-reliant men standing around watching. Couldn't get away with that in today's litigious society. What a demo! I miss Doc; a colorful character and a veritable fount of historical information.

[23JDCA 808]

My engine had the propeller hub mounted directly to the crankshaft. Here is what a land-based unit would look like. Pilot is sitting in the propwash here. ...bill
http://www.roadandtrack.com/special_feature/wind-wagon

[23JDCA 808]

Here is the hub. 4 5/8" wide by 3 3/16" high. Brazed with six propeller mounting holes. ...bill

[HarleyCreation]

Yep!

I have heard that numbers less than 1000 were for special applications. My 23JDCA 808 came with a hub on the output for a propeller; the fellow's father had planned to use it on a pusher ice boat. The engine had been run, so the hub may have been added at some point. There have been kits available to do this in the past. ...bill

You're right and those "special applications" were usually race or special fast motors.

1923 JDCA ("CA") motor numbering started with number "500" so you do have a special motor there.

But how does it differ from a "A" (JDA) motor???? That's what I'd like to know!

However, the motor model letters that Glaser posted were normal motors and numbers for those began with 1000; or at least should have!

I'd love to have a good clear photo of the serial number on 23-JDCA-808. It's a great example of an honest under "1000" number.

Thanks!