Saturday evening post

[Chris Haynes]

I was loosin sleep over where I heard that before

and chris Haynes said - "I was calling them hogs before 1965"

now I remember while shovelling snow - the 4th grade playground, the kids would say " I said it first - stop stealin my sayin"

aka hawg

I didn't say I was the first calling them hogs now did I? Obviously I heard it elsewhere.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=the+HOG+farm+AND+Harley&btnG=Search

[HarleyCreation]

Hog: How old is it?

I think we agree that the term "hog" for a Harley-Davidson Big Twin motorcycle was in common useage by the mid to late 1960s. The question is how much earlier does the term go back in time? To the early '60s, '50s, 40s, or earlier? Some people claim it goes back much earlier. Here is a Wikipedia entry:

"Origin of "Hog" nickname"
Beginning in 1920, a team of farm boys, including Ray Weishaar, who became known as the "hog boys," consistently won races. The group had a hog, or pig as their mascot. Following a win, they would put the pig (a real one) on their Harley and take a victory lap.[101]

Footnote #101 is a link to the "official" Harley-Davidson website history. Here we find under Timeline for 1921. Quote: "Also, the "hog" association starts when the racing team's mascot, a pig, is carried on a victory lap after each race won by the team."

While it's true there was a piggy mascot around 1921, what evidence is there that the nickname "hog" for a Harley-Davidson motorcycle began then? I can't ever recall seeing the post-WWI Harley racing crew being referred to as "hog boys," but as the Wrecking Crew. Is there evidence for this "hog boys" moniker?

If the nickname "hog" arose in the early 1920s as claimed there should be a continuous record of its use over the years. But is there? So far, I have not run across it. Likewise, if the term arose in the late 1940s, '50s, or 60s, it should also start appearing in the motorcycle press around the same time. So far we haven't gotten it out of the 1960s. Odd for such an old and time-honored term -- if it really is.

[HarleyCreation]

Back to 1935?

I wonder if Harley's pushing the "hog" nickname back to 1921 had anything to do with this lawsuit:

http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-...64/806/488738/

(snip quotes):

Public use of the word "hog". In the late 1960s and early 1970s, the word "hog" was used by motorcycle enthusiasts to refer to motorcycles generally and to large motorcycles in particular. The word was used that way in the press at least as early as 1965 (2), and frequently thereafter.

Footnote #2: See California: The Wild Ones, Newsweek, March 29, 1965, at 25 ("The state wide clan [of Hells' Angels] has its own beat argot (sample: a 'hog' is a big motorcycle)...."); Hell's Angels, Saturday Evening Post, Nov. 20, 1965, at 37 ("Some angels can dismantle a motorcycle in two hours. When they get through tinkering with it, the hog is a lean, dangerous beast."); see also Hunter S. Thompson, Hell's Angels 97 (1967) ("A columnist for the Los Angeles Times once described hogs as 'the kind of cycle the German couriers used to run down dogs and chickens--and people--in World War II: low brutish machines, with drivers to match.' ").

BUT: this footnote also states:

The earliest reference in the record to "hog" as referring to large motorcycles is the caption "Hog Heaven" in the June 1935 issue of Popular Mechanics. See Time Machine, Popular Mechanics, June 1995, at 16 (reprinting cover and caption of June 1935 issue)

Anyone seen this June '35 issue of Popular Mechanics?

Now we are getting somewhere!

[Chris Haynes]

While it's true there was a piggy mascot around 1921, what evidence is there that the nickname "hog" for a Harley-Davidson motorcycle began then? I can't ever recall seeing the post-WWI Harley racing crew being referred to as "hog boys," but as the Wrecking Crew. Is there evidence for this "hog boys" moniker?

The "Wrecking Crew" was the name The MoCo gave its race team. I am sure other racers had other names for them.
Have you ever heard the MoCo call its OHV's a "Knucklehead" or "Panhead" during its production?

[TimR]

The Brookfield Saddle also was available in White!!

I guess that I'll dress up the leather mount it on a bike and go for a ride. It was 80 here today.

[T. Cotten]

Tim!

Is the Brookfield seat pan formed like a Chummee, or a Buddy, or a hybrid?

Are the pressed ribs back by the rail mounts straight, curved, or half-straight and one end curved?

Thanks in advance,

....Cotten

[TimR]

Tom!
sometimes a picture is better than words.





If you have more questions let me know. Tim

Note: The air holes in this pan have a smaller diameter than the other two H-D Buddy seats that I have.

[HarleyCreation]

The "Wrecking Crew" was the name The MoCo gave its race team. I am sure other racers had other names for them.

No doubt they did. But if someone claims the early racing team was called the "hog boys" (and puts it into quotes), it's important to see the original source. Otherwise it could be made up. We have caught so many fabrications (lies) that I can't help being sceptical. Now it's the first Eight-Valve we had to clean house on.

[HarleyCreation]

The Brookfield Saddle also was available in White!!

I guess that I'll dress up the leather mount it on a bike and go for a ride. It was 80 here today.

That looks exactly like the saddle on the Herb bike, altho in better shape. Where did you find that beauty?

Enjoy your ride!

[HarleyCreation]

I wonder if Harley's pushing the "hog" nickname back to 1921 had anything to do with this lawsuit:

(snip quotes):

Footnote (in lawsuit) also states:

Quote: "The earliest reference in the record to "hog" as referring to large motorcycles is the caption "Hog Heaven" in the June 1935 issue of Popular Mechanics. See Time Machine, Popular Mechanics, June 1995, at 16 (reprinting cover and caption of June 1935 issue)"

Anyone seen this June '35 issue of Popular Mechanics?

Now we are getting somewhere!

No Herb, we are NOT getting anywhere!

This really proves the point about DEMANDING and then examining the original source.

The June 1995 issue of Pop. Mech. (p.16) uses the term "Hog Heaven" in their "Time Machine" 60 years ago retrospective column.

http://books.google.com/books?id=OGU...nics+june+1995

The lawsuit guys then wrongly (purposely?) claimed the term "Hog Heaven" also appeared in the orig. June 1935 issue.

However, "Hog Heaven" was NOT used in the 1935 issue. See for yourself:

http://books.google.com/books?ie=ISO...AAMBAJ&jtp=838

What appeared to be a solid original source -- cited in a lawsuit by highly paid lawyers -- goes up in smoke like a leaky Linkert carb. The 1935 article does NOT include the term "Hog Heaven" and why would it?

So, we are back to 1965 for the oldest known use of "hog" for a H-D motorcycle, yet possibly older.

But 1921? Hog boys? Let's see the proof!

[T. Cotten]

Curse them leaky Linkerts!

Tim!
Off-hand, and I'm no student of leather (I like vinyl a lot), but I think that's the "hybrid" half-straight-half-curved-rib seat pan that I would expect. It is "aftermarket" at its finest.

Pics load slow on my antique computer, so my next question would be if it appears that there are extra holes to mount to an Indian seat bar as well as to an H-D.

The straight portion of the rib has fooled many into thinking they were Chummees, myself included. But I could be wrong again,

....Cotten
C'mon... just look at a '65.
No wonder "hog" never caught on 'til they really got fat.
Uh, when did H-D copyright the name? Thanks....

[TimR]

Tom,
I am unfamiliar with how the Indian seat bolt pattern compairs to what I have. I am leaving for Eustis Thur. A.M. I will watch for one there.

Herb, I purchased the seat in Pa. 1987, for $10