Tank Badges

[k.perry]

I'm having to make a set of curved '54 only Harley-Davidson tank emblems from a set of straight "one size fits none" re-pop emblems. The base plates come with a self-adhesive backing. I might expose some of the adhesive for placement, but I will want to braze the base plates on a set of new re-pop '49 (tank shift) tanks. I have an Eastwood trim hammer and a small horned anvil. Where do I start?

[T. Cotten]

Don't braze,..solder.

Brazing with brass would make the tank brittle, and direct braze-welding would warp at least the mounts, if not the tank itself.

I use soft solder.
Polish the area, and flux it with common plumber's paste flux. Then with a very large iron, or gentle propane flame, "tin" a layer on the area for the mounts. Warm and wipe until you have a mirror-like thin coating. Do the same to the backside of the emblems, but a smudge heavier. Re-flux lightly

Then lay the mounts out on the tanks while installed upon a bare frame.
With a large iron, it it is then easy to press and melt them on, walking from one end to the other. With a torch, you may have to take the tanks to a bench and apply pressure with a discardable screwdriver while gently heating with flame.

Scrape and sand the excess.

If you missed on your layout, you flame them off, re-tin, and try again.

[k.perry]

Thanks for the lead. Plumber's flux. Got that. Johnson's paste flux (won't turn your fingers green forever like Lay-CoŽ will.)
Tinning is real important in any plumbing copper fusion where the pipe is green or been buried. You have to make the pipe as clean as gold, no black specks or it won't completely tin. I use a dry 100% cotton glove (poly blends will melt to your skin) and wipe around a pipe, once I've fluxed, heated and started the solder melting. A couple of tinning wipe-applications and the piece is "buttered" silver, and the solder coating is so thin that you can easily slide cleaned and fluxed fittings onto cooled pipe. That's using Lead-Free solder for copper to copper. I can still get 50-50 (lead and tin) for copper, outlawed for drinking water, but wondering if the 70-30 (lead/tin) autobody solder from Eastwood is going to join metal to metal better. Guess I better try my Lead-Free and/or 50-50 solder on some scrap "metal" pieces and see how they bond and let ya's know.

[k.perry]

Power wired-brushed a water heater inspection cover to bright metal. Cut some strips of metal from it. Fluxed the bright metal and strips, layed the strips on the bright metal cover. Used 50-50 solder to make a puddle around and under the strip. Then I tried Lead-Free. Both solders produced excellent bond adhesion, but 50-50 leaves a thicker "wiped" coating over larger flat surfaces than Lead-Free (Tin, silver, copper, antimony) does and Lead-Free melts at the same or even at a slightly lower temp. I'm using Lead-Free to tin the tank panel.
When trying to locate the positioning for the "script" on the right-side tank, I found that the beginning... of the connecting "arm"... of script (at the top), connecting the letter "O" in Davidson to the "n", is in a plumb-line directly below the exact middle (O.D.) of the fill neck...down 3-1/2" from the O.D. of the fill neck, to the top edge of the script. The bar that runs under Harley-Davidson touches the bottom edge of the "y" Harley-Davidson.

[inrustwetrust]

I think the lead free (95/5) solder melts at a higher melting point than the 50/50. Proper flux and as low a temperature as possible, along with cleanliness are the keys to a strong, good looking job. With 50/50 self tinning flux works good. Self cleaning flux has given me the best results with 95/5. Temperature is critical. If you burn the flux, you are way too hot. It seems that just after the flux starts to bubble, you are just about ready. Once you get a flow, back the heat off and only add heat as the solder quits flowing. Solder flows towards the hot spots so you can flow an unwanted puddle back to where you need it by carefully managing the heat, remembering that excesive heat repels the solder. Using different melting point solders makes it easier to assemble things with many parts like most the early gas tanks. Start with high melting point solder for the first parts and finish off with the low melt. Often, the higher the melting point the greater the strength. The fluxes are highly corrosive so all must be removed and any void spaces that have residual flux will eventually creat a problem. The sel

[k.perry]

Yes, the heat threshold between hot enough and too hot is very narrow. I use straight acetylene as fuel, but you can get enough heat with propane. Get enough heat quickly and you can turn the torch away from the work if you're tacking something. Always have a cotton wipe glove. Always wear FULL eye protection. If you have to quickly spread a puddle out over the surface, you can. I like the small tip on my turbo torch that concentrates heat. Eastwood makes a jewelers torch that's propane fueled.
The AM, OE style pop-up reserve tank-shift tanks showed up. They have a later style crossover vent nipple at the top on both tanks (one-tank-fits-all, from the aftermarket, all of them made by the same company in R.O.C. for CCI and everybody else). Filling those two top vent nipples with solder. They came with rubber stoppers, but rubber will crack. The tank emblems are a different matter. They are made in Taiwan for HarleyŽ. Came from Chuck with H-D part numbers for the script and mounting plate which has self-adhesive backing that we aren't going to use. Problem with removing the adhesive strip is, the three tiny screws that will bottom-out on the tank, you get two sets (alright! extra screws); one with the mount plate and another set [chrome] with the script). But, it means that I have to put three dimples horizontally into the side of the tank, so the screws can fully seat after passing through the script plate and not bottom-out on the tank, because when the adhesive backing is gone, the screws will sink in deeper. Bending the front edge of the script to fit the tank looks do-able, but the forward curve that has to be bent for the front of the tanks (just after the forward mount screw) is going to be a bear. The "o-n" in Davidson makes a tight turn (right-tank script) there towards the front of the tank. I bent the first curve with the mount strip and script attached. Might have to remove the mount strip so I can tight radius bend the "o-n" with I don't know what, yet. Wish they were stainless, but nice detail everywhere within the part. Exactly as OE, but the mount strip doesn't have the raised areas along it, that match with the indents backside of the script letters, making for a secure fit mount-to-script like the OE ones fit together, but then Taiwan will make a part exactly like you tell them to.
Any suggestions on how to put the three approx. 1/4" wide X 3/32" deep dimples in a new tank? Spot heat the strike area, surrounded by heat-sink paste to reduce warp? I should probably install and fully tighten the shut-off/ reserve rod and seat in the left tank, in case striking the tank in three places with a round-end drift knocks the in-line tank holes out of alignment. They want you to mount the tanks on the frame you're using, leak test the tanks...their reason for the rubber nipples on every orifice,...check crossover connections, tank-to-frame mount stud, dash mount, fork side to side tree-clearance, everything that has to "fit" needs to be checked.
Kick-Start Chuck (who stands closer to the fire than most of us) explains China like this: They can build and send rockets into space, and they will make a part however you tell them to: A hard-part piston, or a cut-your-finger-it's-so-raw jawed CrescentŽ wrench look-a-like with a shorter handle. I couldn't find a difference between a Taiwan Harley-DavidsonŽ script emblem or an OE emblem, except that Harley chose to make them in chrome instead of [my preference] stainless. They even have a 3-MŽ self-adhesive strip on the mount, and a U.S.A generated "instruction sheet" included, w/ all H-D yrs. and models it fits, (because Harley-Davidson asked them to). If "Taiwan" were not printed on the cardboard, you couldn't tell the whole package from domestic. Or, if you tell Taiwan to make it cheap, they will use every ounce of their rocket science technical resource to make the product as cheap and unfinished as is humanly possible.
The Knuckle/early-Pan horseshoe tank I ordered was in a sealed Taiwan box. Lo-gloss chrome dipstick (wish it were cad or zinc), no brass seal-washer under it. Clean metal inside though. Nice. Like they've made thousands of them. Painted black (and un-primered) as a protective covering only. Real nice reproduction, except the drain plug is welded shut or I don't know what,* but it's not removable, not even with heat and a 3/4" socket on a 15" breaker bar, so it's headed back.
The "diamond" outer primary is the same as OE. I looked at the guage metal, the paint, the gasket channel spot welds, just exactly like OE. Un-believeable. It's a piece from the new "Replica" standard. Lots of "curb appeal" there. I wrapped it back up. A finished piece, primered, painted black. I'll sell it with the machine.
* Yes, I know what...because Chuck figured it out after he breaker-barred the drain nut and crippled the oil tank. After... HE sent the tank back, of course. He told me not to say anything to JW or Tedd might re-issue the oil tanks as commorative, although I would probably deserve one since I claim to be a plumber. The fact and reason was explained as a one-two punch. The problem will be discovered by everybody sooner than the reason. For the reason, you need to study the drain plug at the bottom of the tank. I was stunned by the fact and then before I could recover, he hit me with the reason.
Imagine, if you were the guy that put all your work into this piece (the oil tank) over there and you busted your chops to get it right and then because you didn't get the message (in this case it looks as so), it went wrong right at the last finished step. Would you ship? We're all in this together, and that is for sure.

[k.perry]

!

[T. Cotten]

I thought I clearly posted "iron",.. not "torch". The whole point was to avoid enbrittlement. Too late now.


I hope the lesson isn't too expensive.

[k.perry]

Iron which? Iron how? I haven't used a torch yet. I need to make the three shallow punch indents for the '54 tank script screws so they won't bottom out on tank metal surface.

[T. Cotten]

You would have to be very skilled to do it with propane. Acetylene would be too hot too quick, and would warp things fast..

I shoulda wrote: avoid a torch.

Use a large iron; Mine has a 3/4" element (~3000 watt), and makes the tinning process smooth and controlled,... and safe.

[k.perry]

You mean a soldering iron? Where do you find one? MSC? I want to see one. I want to know where to get one. And yes, I know what it feels like to want.

[T. Cotten]

Yes. MSC has large ones in the $75 range.

[k.perry]

Cool. I'll look. MSC (800) 645-7270 free 4,500 pg. catalog. Any ideas on how to put the three dents in the tank for the script screws?

[vride5]

instead of making dimples in the tank to accept the screw points, i would just grind off the points

[k.perry]

OK, that makes sense. How to keep the non-finished screw tips from rusting?