How did they survive?

[Tom Lovejoy]

Hey Guy's, just curious about your experiences with antique motorcycles and our hobbie. I was wondering alot lately, expecially with the Cannonbal thing getting going. How did these old machines survive? The odd's are so againts it, most motorcycles are pretty much beat to death after 10 or 20 years at best. Yet when the old machines were not worth anything much at all. People started saving them for 30 - 70 years or more!
Was it just a guy who had a Thor, or knew someone who had a Thor and because of that would not let go of it for the next 50 or so years? Or was it an old nut who collected every old motorcycle he found, no mater their worth and or what people said? I can understand it abit more if it was in the family, or a business. Just wondering how so many have survived, that this hobbie as done as well as it has. Was it hard core collectors, or just the little guys who loved a brand or something like that? My guess is all the above, what's been your experience?
Best example I have, is the guy I bought my Henderson from. He had a beat up KJ before the war, he rode to school on occasion. That old KJ must of made one heck of an impression, because he collected Henderson parts and lots of them, for many years. He helped many folks with Henderson's over the years in the club and out. When I first ment him and saw all those parts he had saved, a three car garage all but full of them. At the price he sold lots of parts for, I thought he was nut's, he had held them for so many years, looked like fool's gold to me. But without folks like that, I think we would not have a hobbie like we do. Your thought's ?

[flat-happy]

tom i can say for sure it is all of the above. i've lived through it all. one mans trash is another mans treasure. sure i wanted a model a ford roadster pickup back in the day but all i could afford was a 47 flathead 45 for $50 with no engine but otherwise complete. i was 14. the harley stuff was pretty much worthless. i bought a 1950 panhead that laid on a pile of old fishnets on a pier near the ocean for $50 once. but i had a vision i guess----it was gold to me and i didn't care what anyone else thought. i'm 60 now and the only thing that has changed is the price. i'm still dreaming about that old model a

[Barry Brown]

actually it's misleading PROPORTIONALLY VERY FEW OF THE EARLY BIKES HAVE SURVIVED . Harley made over 11,000 bikes in 1912, how many have you seen lately? Henderson made thousands of deluxes, many of them for just about every North American police department in the 1920's . scrap metal drives for ww2 were probably the recipients of most of the worn out iron. We owe a debt of gratitude to all those obsessive hoarders who squirreled away what they did.

[bobdo]

I think Barry is very accurate. We owe the "squirrels" who share the same feeling we do about these machines & how they make us feel. There was an old junk yard service station in my hometown of Warren Ohio. Story goes the ol guy refused the scrap drive during WWII & the gov. took his operating permit away. From what I understand, if it wasn't at all necessary & didn't run it was scrapped for the war effort. Post war bikes are more plentiful, & their value reflects that, but the sheet metal is scarce. Some of us "chopper" guys are responsible for OEM sheet metal parts having high value. That being said, I'm also surprised at the number of bikes & parts that have survived. I can't put in to words how my bike makes me feel, but I can understand why bikers have made sure that their bikes have survived for another ride.
Bob

[Paquette]

When I was a kid, there was an old junkyard near where I lived called " Greasy Gene's". At the time, I was into British sportcars and used to visit on a regular basis looking for parts. I noticed the Henry "J's, T and A model Fords, Anglia's, Lincolins, Dodges, you name it and a whole bunch of old motorcycles always in the Graveyard but I was not into them so no interest. About 1988, the property was sold to build apartments and a crusher came on site, cars sold for scrap metal, and the rest is history ( or the loss of)---Sad to say but that junkyard today would be sold for millions just for the stuff that was there--Michael

[c.o.]

All good points so far. How many bikes simply ended up at the local landfill? I know of a few stories about machines seen passing by on their way to the dump! I recall a tale of a JD landing in a garbage dump just north of me about 30 years ago. It was complete and was simply dropped off because it happened to be "spring" cleaning day. I keep thinking why can't I show up when something like that is happening?!! How many partial machines have survived because they were put on work duty? Engines powering pumps for the farm, wheels for carts and almost whole bikes with large cross cut saws for lumber cutting, rototillers with J-model transmissions, the list is long. I marvel at the folks that either had the foresight or even unknowingly collected old bikes early on and saved them from a fate that saddens me to think about. I am always excited to see another "new" early machine surface. It always boosts my faith that some of them are indeed still out there waiting to be found.

Here's a pic from an Earlyriders magazine....... Can you imagine stumbling across something like this?

[fabercycle]

Old bikes were "good products" infinitely rebuildable, and their individual components were useful. Good products always survive. crappy ones don't.........I bet there are already more Knuckleheads left on the road than Ford pintos, mavericks, and reliant K cars, .....they were broke when they left the dealer lot.

[rbenash]

Well then there's some good stories too. One about that old guy outside of Pottstown PA (Stowe) on old 422. Had a couple of acres of A's and T's that just sat. From at least the early 40's until I would say 1970 or so. He always wanted ridiculous money for them. Seemed like he really didn't want to sell. You never saw any that lookd like they were in the process of being torn down. Guy just collect them. He died, his kids sold them all out to and outfit the represented Hollywood movie industry is the story as i recall it. So they might have gone to some good use. My father always tells a story about when he walked in to see if he could buy a model A. Guy wanted $900 back then, probably around 1952 or so. He tried to deal with the guy and he wouldn't budge. This was without even picking one out. He finally got frustrated and walked out. Went back a few times and it was the same interaction.

Then there was Wentzel's HD in Pottstown. I know the garages where he kept all his old stuff. We all know what happened to that. Pretty good story. At least a good deal of it finally went to collectors. But basically the guy kept all his old stuff, was hard to buy it from and when he did his kids sold it. You used to go to his shop and in the yard behind there were old bikes sitting out in the weather. He just never really wanted to talk about selling them. He'd try to talk you out of it and try to sell something new instead. I remember telling him I already have a new bike, just want something old to restore. Always said, something like shop is busy, come back later, etc and when you did it was the same loop.

[exeric]

I've tried to deal with guys like that as well. It's one thing if they are being good stewards of the old stuff; keeping it under cover, and making some effort to preserve but more often than not, it's some crusty old fart that just has a mean streak or is mentally unhinged. I have no pity for those old bastards that pass away with 10 cents in their pocket and holes in their socks when they could have made a fortune and passed a few bikes onto more loving owners. I guess we'll all find out what we're made of when we get up in years and some young kid is bugging us to sell him a bike. . . Come on ya' old bastard, let go !

[Northwoods_Maine]

They're called "hoarders", it's a pyschological illness. Much like the proverbial old lady who lives in a trailer and has 84 cats!

[bobdo]

My brother had a bike shop back in the '70's-'80's in Warren Oh. Some of you may remember Gambacinni that had an Indian dealership in the area. I hope I got the spelling right on his name. He would ride around on his white Chief all dressed up in white with red Indian logo's on his overalls, gloves etc., quite a site. He came into the shop one day while we were sitting around talking about finding old parts. He said back in the fifties he took five dump truck loads of harleys that were traded in to the dump. Then he just turned & walked out. The conversation quickly turned to, where is the dump? I really got a kick out of that guy.
So I guess maybe a lot of bikes were lost that were traded in to competing dealerships.
Bob

[Rubone]

In 1965 the old dealer in Albuquerque gave up his dealership in a battle with H-D over corporate demands. (Sound familiar?) He had been a dealer since '34 and in the same location since the 40s. When the guys were moving out of the building and re-locating the shop to some sheds and barns near his home, they got so tired of hauling stuff that they just started dumping excess. They took truckloads of slightly damaged sheetmetal and tons of hard parts including complete engines to the dump. I didn't hear about it until years later!
Robbie

[Barry Brown]

I knew one of the employees of Byles Harley Davidson in Ottawa Ontario . He told me as a young lad hired in the early fifties he was given a sledge hammer and told to break up all the old engine cases in back to send for scrap metal. I guess they could pack more metal in the dumpster that way.