Newtons Law of Kick Starting

[Jim M]

Ok, here is the true scenario that happened today and it has happened to me several times in the past. Push the knucklehead out of the garage, I am by myself, no one around. Open the fuel line, give it two soft prime kicks, turn the ignition on, check around, still no one around, starts on the FIRST kick. Ride to a friends shop. Walk around don't see anyone I know so I jump back on the warm bike. No prime, two people watching, one a nice looking girl, fails to start on the first kick, smile at the girl, starts on the THIRD kick. Feeling good, crowd gathers around to hear the old bike. Forget to disengage clutch before shifting because I am nervous being the center of attention. Bike stalls. Feel really stupid. I should have known better. Darn it. Crowd still there, some chuckling, probably 15 or so people. Kick it several times probably 15 TIMES, too tired to talk. Get off change plugs, crowd leaves, no one around, bike starts first kick...

Don't tell me I am the only one who has experienced this. It happens to me all of the time. The number of kick starts is proportional to the number of people watching. Next time I'm going to tell everyone to leave before I try starting it again in public.

Jim

[61 panman]

Jim,
Thanks for the laugh, forgot about the clutch... man what a rookie move. Just another of the many benefits of riding an old bike. It BUILDS CHARACTER.
Doug

[AdminGuy]

Isn't there some sort of unwritten rule. After a prime and two kicks your supposed to turn your back and study cloud formations out of respect for the poor *U#*&^$)*&%.

So as not too spread any bad hoo-do.

I think the fifth or sixth kick is the one your allowed to offer advice and support on.

***The funniest part of road side break downs. 30 sec. to diagnose the problem. 15min of discussing the best possible solution and proceedure of how to fix it. I love it!

Be thankful you didn't have it kick back and jam your hip socket. Ouch....that hurts.

[k.perry]

Harley Bob told me that he always kicks-through once with NO throttle after he has run the machine whether the motor is warm or hot. Then with the timer half retarded he turns the key "On" and kicks it again. I do it now and it works for my Pan. Maybe your motor runs a little rich. Better rich than lean. Try leaving the iginition "On" if it misfires. Just pump the crank till you find a compression spot way down at 7 o'clock and try to forget about any kick-back, especially if the motor is hot (I set the timer a little past half-way retard when it's hot), if you keep cranking, it will start. Kick-backs occur to me on pre-ignition, when the ignition is ON and I move the crank-pedal. Kick the motor all the way through and "keep the pedal down until the motor quits turning to prevent the starter crank gear from connecting to the starter gear", warned Lakeside, Bill. I beseech of everyone to not jump up and down on the kick arm. Leave that for the long stroke Sportster folks. They have to. Utilize the gift of flywheel weight and short stroke that were given to both Knuck & Pan and perhaps Flathead too. When you put the kick-pedal down at 7 o'clock, and your astride the motorcycle, the kick effort becomes more of a hip twist and short bump. Your only barely turning the motor over once. I see much more crowd amazement in their faces with this technique than were I to jump up and down and perhaps dis-engage a starter clutch gear during the pro-cess, wreck my knee and still not having the bike start, or worse yet, be in such mute agony that you have to have someone move the machine over to the curb for you. When short-bumped, you can have your gaze focused on some far off object, astride the machine, both hands on the handlebars, and not look at the motor. 99% of the time this works on my old beater, and I never glance at the crowd until the motor fires. Their look is always one of sheer awe, that I have expelled such miminal effort to control this beast and guaranteed to red-line the applause meter. Return the timer to full advance, adjust your sunglasses, both feet on the footboards now and motor off slowly.

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

The Sportster motor can either be your best friend or your worst nightmare to kick over! And that's with a good battery ignition. Add a Magneto and you may well be looking forward to some much needed knee surgery and an electric start (E-GADS!!) All those stereotypical stories are founded in truth! If your really interested in impressing the 'Ladies', do it on a Stroker and Magneto combo Sporster! You will quickly develop a 'Routine' and stick to it! I have two bad knees and have sufferered all the 'types' of things that can happen...slipping kick pedal (From the very top straight down to the bottom to Dead Stop.....OUCH! ...as well as the dreaded 'Kick Back' that near launches you over the bars!! YOU LEARN THAT: CORRECTLY ASSEMBLED AND NEW CONDITION KICKER COMPONENTS PLUS TIMING, POINT GAP, HOT SPARK AND A CORRECTLY TUNED CARB is your first defense. I run a S&S 'E', FULL CHOKE ON, IGN OFF, 2-3 PRIME KICKS, IGN ON, MID WAY UP ON KICKER AND FOLLOW THRU SMOOTH KICK AND IT ALMOST ALWAYS STARTS ONE KICK! BUT NOT ALWAYS...Like when your at a 'Car Show' and your the only motorcycle there and "EVERYONE" is watching you and waiting to hear the 'COOL' Harley start-up!!!... ........Hrdly-Dangrs....PS...Funny how other Harley riders react when they witness the 'slipping' kicker...kind of like when they see some dude get wacked in the nuts at a ball game....oooooohhhaaaaahhhhoooocccchhhh!!!!.

[L. A.]

You guys crack me up!

Years ago...I rode a '67 XLCH...and I'll NEVER forget starting that bike! My right knee won't let me! LMAO

As for my flattie...I HAFTA jump on the kicker arm...don't have enough strength in my legs to 'bump it'...but I'll give it another try...

And just for the record...my bike never starts the same way twice...aaarrrgggghhhh! LOL

[HJahn]

How about the warm bike that would make one loud bang or backfire and then a cloud of stinking unburned hydro-carbons would rise up and burn your nose? After that a prodigeous amount of kicking would only make it start. Or sometimes of opening the throttle wide open with the key off and kicking fresh air thru it first. Sometimes not that either. Just lot's of kicking and growing embarassment if anyone was around watching...

One cylinder with lower compression always made starting worse. But once the bike started it would run fine.

I always found my flatheads to be good starters. It was the Panheads that were the problem bikes. Maybe that "high" 8 to 1 compression?

On the other hand, a good starting bike only needs a little shove once the piston is over TDC. Then starting is almost effortless. Nothing finer than to gas up, throw a leg over such a machine, and you KNOW it is going to start on the first easy little kick. Then it's fun if people are watching!

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

The not starting right away at the Car Show, didn't really bother me. It goes with the territory of 'kick-start' motorcycles. In fact a had a couple of 'Old Timers' standing around and were talking to each other and one even told his wife to wait a couple minutes before they left because he wanted to hear the bike. But what kind of p*ssed me off was the skinney yogurt, sushi eating "Yuppie" dude with his sandles and 'Jaquar' cap walking by with the way too 'Hot' for him blonde girlfriend to which he just had to say 'aloud' to me and all with-in earshot " You need to put a little weight behind that...chuckle"...to which I immediately replied "I'm 180 Lbs 'Pal' and this 10:1 compression and you couldn't even crank it thru once.....let alone 'Start' it.....while giving my best 'Old Marine Sgt 'scouling look'!!..GRRRRR!!. He shut up and kept goin..his girl friend smirked and the 'Old Guys' just started laughing....course the bike took another 6 or 7 kicks to start..but what the hell.....Helps keep me trim!.... ...Hrdly-Dangrs

[HJahn]

Originally posted by Hrdly-Dangrs
this 10:1 compression and you couldn't even crank it thru once.....

10: 1 compression!

I'm going to have nightmares tonight reliving my kick-start days!

Funny, but when I bought my first "modern" bike (a '76), I was scared NOT to have a kick-starter on it. Sure, electric would be okay if there was a kick-start too! Can't say I really miss the old kicker, but those were the days when the boys were separated from the men. If you couldn't kick-start a Harley, then you didn't deserve to ride one.

Now you just stab a button. Even my grandma can do that! No wonder there are so many yuppie riders out there now...

[61 panman]

Talk about your superflurous accessories. Electric start on a motorcycle.... to me it just seems so civilized. I am not bragging here but I have 3 motorcycles and not one of em has a starter motor. They all start within 3 kicks unless it of course it is really cold but then I need the extra kicks to warm me up! To me a bike is not really a worthy machine unless it has a kicker and spoked wheels. I guess that makes me a purist ( I can add that to my many other positive traits).
Anyway I gotta go we're having Sushi and Yogurt for dinner tonight served of course by my too beautiful and much younger wife, and I cannot find my ascot.
Doug

[L. A.]

LOL PanMan!!

Guess that makes me a purist, too!

Never owned a bike with a 'button'...wassat? LOL

[flathead1957]

Newtons law

Aint that the truth. I just got my Flathead (46) last year. It is the first of its kind I have ever ridden, let alone owned. I quickly joined in at a local Pub that hosts "Classic Bike Night" one Wednesday a month Here on "the famous Woodward Avenue" in the Burbs of Detroit. They actually gave me a second prize trophy(so I would come back because the group is dwindling) for my unrestored bike. At the end of the evening, trophy in hand, I get on my trusty steed. With an audience of seasoned classic bike dudes I retart this, and half choke that, and quarter turn this, until I am ready to start jumping up and down (and break into a freakin sweat that Holiday inn towels wouldn't mop up.) Finally out of pity, one of the onlookers came over and after three kicks, my steed was ready to go. I went home and studied my starting drill for two weeks before I would go out into public on that bike again. So you are not alone my friend. Brian.

[61 panman]

HEY,
You two guys should get the award for being the purist of the pure... You don't even have OVERHEAD VALVES.
Great kickstartin stories!,
Doug

[L. A.]

LOL panman

I believe in simplicity in my life...hehehe
I'm not high-maintenance and neither is my scoot...LMAO...makes life more fun, doncha know!

I look back on my Florida days...when I rode my 900...i can't tell you how many kicker springs I went through...always carried a spare...LOL
And forget about a magneto in the rain! Usta cover it with a baggie...

In my younger, DUMBER years, my ridin' buddies & I would ride to our local watering holes & meet up with other ridin' buds...mostly men...not too many women rode back then, so I had many male friends...(yowsa!)...anyway...we'd be in a bar, drinkin'...then someone would decide we'd move on to another...got to the point where any one of my buddies would holler over @ me, "Lell! Go start kickin' that damned sportster...we're headin' up the road!"
So...'bout a half hour or so before our scheduled departure, LOL, I'd go outside...I'd finally get it started & on my way...pull into the parking lot of the next place...before I even shut off my scoot, everybody'd come roarin' in!!!
They had it down to a science!
PERFECT TIMING!
Ahhhh...it's great to have thoughtful friends...LMAO

[HJahn]

Back in my "club days" at one big all-weekend party the President (Frank) said he would start his Panhead with his hand. We were all pretty loaded by then, and I didn't believe he could do it, but he did.

Another time I was with some local boys who were putting together a Sporty. They got it all ready and started kicking and kicking and kicking. Somehow I knew that bike would start, but that they were kicking it wrong -- hard but wrong -- like applying the kick at slightly the wrong time and the bike didn't like that. I know that sounds nuts, but I think it's true. If kick the bike wrong, it will take offence and refuse to start. Anyway, after they were all tired out, I said: "let me try once." I acted real confident, threw a leg over it, and gave it an easy shove and I swear that it started right up on that first kick!

I am not always that lucky -- or good. I have my '79 XT500 "big single" out right now for the first time this spring. That bike is a bear to start. Nothing but nothing makes it an easy starter unless you religiously start and ride it every day. Let it sit and then it's kick-o-rama. It pops and sputters but won't start easy, but then suddenly it ROARS to life. Sometimes it's like it says: Nope! Come back in an hour or maybe tomorrow, but not today. I've had the carb apart and tried every combo in the book, but it remains a problem child, altho it runs perfect with stump pulling power.