Heritage Canada Export Permits For Vintage Bikes

Not sure how many Canuks read this forum but I thought it might be a good idea to post this here as well as the CVMG site. 2 years ago I exported an engine out of Canada and it was agreed the buyer would take care of the arrangements and I would do the crating. Luckily I had email proof that I had told the shipper of the correct sale price of the engine as someone undervalued it and sure enough Canada Border services flagged it for inspection. I was contacted and made aware that if the item is over 50 years old and worth more than $8000 a "Cultural properties Export Permit" is required. ( even though the engine had "made in USA" stamped all over it!) I had honestly never heard of such a thing even though I was employed years ago for the Museum of Science and Tech in Ottawa in the early 70's. I believe the legislation came into effect late 70's. Well, ignorance of the law is not accepted by Her Majesty's Money Grabbers . I was promptly fined $1000 and fought it for a year to no avail. Second offence is $25,000! The recipient of the motor was also fined over $4000 for undervaluing . The shipment was allowed to proceed as the engine was deemed to be of no Canadian cultural significance, a fact that any moron would have recognized immediately.
Virtually everything you can think of is covered by these rules, bikes, cars, etc. and even just components of these. Quite a joke in my eye as Canada has had a negligable impact historically with these items and the crucible of everything we love mechanically , the USA, as far as I know has no such laws. I believe many other countries especially in Europe do have similar laws. Last year I sold 2 bikes to Texas and in preparation sent the completed forms to Canada Border Services. The didn't know what they were and sent them to Heritage Canada!! Kinda funny incompetence except when they levy their fines. These are the same clowns that have petitioned the Government to carry guns and have been granted that wish starting in a year or so.

For those who want to comply with the law these export forms are available from
CANADIAN HERITAGE
15 EDDY STREET, 3RD FLOOR(15-3-A)
GATINEAU, QUEBEC K1A 0M5
TEL. 819-934-0560
TOLL FREE 866-999-2494
FAX 819-997-7757
Speak with Catherine Spooner if you wish, she is a very helpfull and pleasant lady or take your chances

[Chris Haynes]

I have imported American made cars and motorcycles and parts back to the USA from Canada and Mexico. I never paid any duty as they were American made products.
What about the North American Free Trade Agreement? (NAFTA) That stops any duty on any items made in North America being shipped to another North American country.

[Barry Brown]

What I Am Talking About Has Nothing To Do With Duty And Nothing To Do With The Usa. It Is An Export Permit Issued By The Canadian Government To Anybody Exporting Goods From Canada To Anywhere. The Idea Is To Prevent Items Of Historical Significance To Canada From Leaving The Country.

[Chris Haynes]

I recently exported a cab for a 1928 Canadian Ford truck from Canada and didn't have to go through any of this.
Maybe they just have it out for you Barry.

[Barry Brown]

It's Whoever You Bought It From That Broke The Law!

[aka HAWG]

that is nice to know - thanks barry

by now we should all know to just overlook any comments made by chris as for some reason he only reads what he thinks he see's. I had my girlfreind read the first post and she never saw the word "duty" and never assumed that is what you ment

aka HAWG

[Chris Haynes]

I'm sorry my use of the word duty was confusing. I consider anything you have to pay to import/export something a type of duty. But then again I have never imported anything valued at $8,000.00. At least not in my opinion.

[Barry Brown]

a Canadian EXPORTER doesn't have to pay any "duty" to the government . As well , the cultural properties export forms are free . The problem arises and fines can be levied if these forms are not correctly filled out and submitted in each and every instance for which the criteria are met. For the most part it is just bureacratic hoops to jump through as I can only think of a few vintage motorcycles of Canadian significance that possibly would be deemed as being important enough to this country to prevent export.
My nasty fine was an eye opener and in spite of it I can understand the motivation behind the legislation. Many Canadian historic artifacts have been lost in the past such as Samuel de Champlain's astrolabe .

[Chris Haynes]

How does an American made item become a Canadian historic artifact?

[Paps]

How about an American made WLC Chris ?

[Barry Brown]

Good points both Chris and Paps! If you read the Cultural properties Act and what qualifies it would seem that the bureaucrats that set the criteria had too much wine at lunch. Why they chose cutoffs relating to market value is ridiculous. There are different cutoff values for almost every sort of item.eg. industrial machines $3000, scientific instruments $5000, paintings and sculpture $15000. Seems to me the Revenue Canada ( our equivalent of the IRS) may have had some input in formulating these rules.

[INLINE4NUT]

Barry thanks for the heads up!! Ive bought many a MC and old vintage parts in Quebec,never had a problem !now after three truck loads of modern MCs where bought in Montreal I have had nothing but headaches !!!! Plenty of paper work and taxes up the you know where !!! But still worth the trip ! I just bought a 1963 Chevy ragtop and drove it home with NO problem go figure !!!

[Chris Haynes]

Good points both Chris and Paps! If you read the Cultural properties Act and what qualifies it would seem that the bureaucrats that set the criteria had too much wine at lunch. Why they chose cutoffs relating to market value is ridiculous. There are different cutoff values for almost every sort of item.eg. industrial machines $3000, scientific instruments $5000, paintings and sculpture $15000. Seems to me the Revenue Canada ( our equivalent of the IRS) may have had some input in formulating these rules.

I guess next time you identify the item as scrap metal.

[c.o.]

They also made Injuns in Toronto in 1914!!!

[Barry Brown]

The whole point I am drawing people's attention to this is that I did not have a clue about this nor did any of my buddies some who have been exporting antique cars for decades! You see, one does not have to stop at one's own customs when driving out of either the USA or Canada, however I have a feeling that may change in the future and many will find out about this the hard way. Last year I exported 2 bikes to the USA that were picked up by a major carrier that specializes in antique vehicle transfers between Canada and the USA. I handed the driver the forms and he said he had never seen or heard of them before! This kind of lack of common knowledge was what I based my unsuccessfull appeal on , the fact that the law is well hidden in an obscure unpublicized document. As I said in an earlier posting Canada Border services did not know what to do with the forms on one occasion. I would love to see Heritage Canada bombarded with hundreds of requests to export model A's and such so that this law could be modified by people in the hobby who know what is going on! 2 years ago I read that Heritage Canada did prohibit the export of a very early ( I think pre 1906?) Ford that was manufactured in Canada. I don't know what the outcome was. Anyway , I am going to end my rant here as I am getting more pissed as I think about it. Just thought it might help to spread the word. Here is the top of the form and part of the letter from Catherine Spooner about motorcycles. Oh, and by the way I DID sell the most beautiful all original 1943 WLC
provost spec. bike to the National war museum years ago . They recently built a 70 million dollar museum and filled it mainly with paintings while all the vehicles are sitting unloved covered with dust and on flat tires. I wonder what country has the most inefficient government?