Maintance free batteries?

[Robert Luland]

Now here’s an interesting question that I’m sure many a person here has asked themselves but was to embarrass to ask. Last year I didn’t use my FLTH for about a year and as usual the moment I wanted to the battery was dead as a door nail. I mean dead! Non-rechargeable. In the trash dead. Well after Harley screwed me out of a $160 clams I started wondering about these maintance free batteries. Last week I went to fire up one of our welders in the shop. AAA wrong again! Dead in the trash. So as you can aces I’m not having a good time here. Last Saturday I decided to pay my local K-Mart a visit. As I’m strolling though the isles I happened to come upon a Sears battery tender on sale for $10 bucks off (This sale is still going on as I type this). As I’m pulling the tender off the shelve I happen to look down and lord en behold there is the battery for the welder. All it is a lawn tractor battery. Now for the all important question that I’ve been leading up to. The battery on the K-Mart shelf had a ½” of dust on it. Do these maintance free batteries die on the shelve? Because they sure do die in real life. I went in to the shop yesterday and went over to my kids atv which hasn’t been used in two years. I put and old style battery in it in the summer of 07. The little **** fired right up. Maintance free my ass. Someone here has to know the answer to this riddle. Bob Luland

[jmanjeff]

battery's do have a shelf life but most rotate the stock now to my ? a Sears battery tender in K-Mart

[Robert Luland]

Jeff K-Mart bought Sears a couple of years ago when they were bankrupt (I'm still tring to figure that one out). K-Mart now carries Craftman tools and automotive stuff. Bob

[scd]

Food for thought. I've had several Sears battery tenders in use in the last few years. They were relatively cheap, and allowed 6 and 12 volt settings. HOWEVER, I've had terrible luck this winter. Two of them just quit working without any sign of failure. One looked like it had the battery up and holding, but was really doing nothing, the other one actually smelled hot and started buzzing while it quite doing it's job. Don't know what to think, but you get what you pay for. Both were about three years old, and had been used nearly continuously.

[Glenn]

the best thing I bought for for the bikes are battery tenders. they come in 6 or 12 volt so you can use on anything the current battery is going on 5 years old and still works great

now back to you original I tool would like to find a 6 volt no acid read no leak battery what is the best?

[Paps]

You may have a very very small drain on the battery as it sits for an extended period of time. Does the bike have any assessories such as digital radio memory, digital clock memory, etc. ? Accessories such as these draw even when turned off. If no digital accessories on on the bike, check for small shorts. Paps

[William McClean]

Club Stalwarts John Bowman Jr. and Joe Martin were on a trip a few years back when a wiring issue caused catstropic failure of the battery on John's BSA Woodsman. It blew the top off battery at speed. Other than a large portion of the top of the plastic battery case fractured the battery appeared to be intact and still had a charge. With tape {I'm not sure if it was duct or electic } holding the shards of battery top in place, a Roadside wiring alteration in the rain was affected. Having faithful tenders close by and a support vehicle the decision was made to trundle onward. " Just to see how far the battery would go."

They made it safely to the planned lodging that night, about 30 miles where the battery was brought into the hotel room for an overnight charging. The next day it was remounted to the BSA and they hit the road again arriving at the final destination without further incident. All told about 120 miles were put on the machine after the batterey let loose.

It was a gel battery.

[darrylri]

I have two Deltran Battery Tenders (they actually own that name), but any of the "smart chargers" are what you need. I have a pigtail mounted on the batteries of all my bikes, and I move the Battery Tenders around from one to the other each time I go into the garage. The smart chargers can be left connected to your battery without problem.

I had a wet lead-acid battery in my R60/2 that was in use for 9 years and about 20k miles, and I only changed it out because I was worried it had to be on its last legs. I used it for another year on my bench, testing electrics and horns and such. I also had a 9 year old 12V battery in my 1975 R90S before it finally gave up, but then that bike has an electric leg.

At least in the vintage BMW world, the "sealed lead acid" (eg, SLA) batteries that are available for emergency lights and various toys are very popular. Often you can find such a battery that is significantly smaller than the OEM battery for your bike, yet has the same or even higher amp-hour rating. A lot of people gut an original battery to use the case, and then put one of these SLA batteries inside. Properly cared for, they seem to have a good, long life also, and they can't leak and ruin the paint or chrome on your frame or headers.

I've got a couple of these in some of my bikes and they seem to be holding up fine. They are fairly inexpensive -- I've bought online from Rage Batteries, but look around, there are plenty of places selling them.

[Magic]

Batteries

I tool would like to find a 6 volt no acid read no leak battery what is the best?

You're going to get alot of recommendations as well as negitives on this subject here. Personally I've had very good luck with the Yuasa/Exide Battery as one has been in my 58FLH going on 7 yrs and doesn't cause any corrosion at the terminals at all. Yes I also use the Battery tenders (5 currently on now). The only thing I didn't like about the Yuasa battery that I put in years back was that I had to paint over the top using Krylon Plastic paint to cover the bright red top which shows under the battery lid. They may of changed the color by now but maybe not but I sure would and will buy another of their batteries. The negitive that I'll give is the one that V-Twin was selling out of India with an all black case. My mistake it constantly caused corrosion on the terminals and destroyed the show battery terminal bolts every other year. always cleaning off the terminals on that one even though I coat them with grease to prevent oxidation it ate them from the inside out. Harley sells a good 6V all black too now which has been good so far. Made in the USA still holds true as good in this case it seems. Maintanance free batteries are the trend and prolly soon the only battery and makes life easy for those that chose not to maintain their own. Merlin in Pa.

[Snakeoil]

I'll keep this simple so non-technical types will not get confused by a lot of techno mumbo-jumbo.

Maintenance Free Batteries are a misleading term. What they mean by that is you do not have to check the electrolyte level and hence there is no provision for adding water to them. That's where the maintenance free part ends. It does not mean that they will never need charging. All batteries discharge when disconnected at a very slow rate. If they fully discharge and remain in that state for a period of time, a chemical change occurs inside that pretty much removes the ability to recharge them.

I was involved in the fuel cell business several years back and worked with a battery expert that forgot more than all of us collectively will ever know about batteries. I'll share with you what he told me about battery storage and charge maintenance. I am personally not a battery expert, nor do I play one on TV.

During off season storage, putting your battery on a trickle charger, even a Deltran Battery Tender Plus is not the best method. He suggested that you hook the battery to the charger and leave it connected until the charger idicates it is fully charged. On the Deltran, this would be the little light on the bottom becomes solid and not flashing. Then disconnect the battery and just leave it. Then in 30 days, repeat the process. What he said was that any current put into the battery when it is fully charged will cause it to "off-gas". That means it causes a release of hydrogen from the electrolyte, which is H2SO4 (that's as technical as I'll get). If you remove the H2 from the electrolyte, you are in essence reducing the capacity of the battery a little. That's why it's better to put it on the charger once a month than leave it on all winter. I use a Deltran BT Plus. Once a month cycle it thru about 8 batteries of various types (lead-acid, sealed lead-acid, AGM) one at a time. It usually takes about 12 hours for the battery to come up to full charge again. So, even though Deltran says you can connect the battery and leave it on all winter, I don't. It might make a difference in life that is hard to measure. But I trust my friend the expert over sales claims you cannot disprove yourself.

There are a few things that are bad for batteries. Heat is one and leaving a dead battery sit uncharged is another. So store the batteries in a cool place when not in use and keep them charged. If you have an emergency generator, that metal box can get pretty hot if the sun beats on it. Would not be a bad idea to put your battery in a cheap styrofoam cooler. The other thing that is bad is letting the electrolyte drop below the top of the plates on regular lead-acid batteries. Always top up with distilled water to keep the plates covered.

I have had lawn tractor batteries last for many years. My 2001 Harley still has the original battery in it.

As for batteries "without acid", they do not exist for our purposes. Gel batteries have the acid, which is the electrolyte in a gel form. AGV or Absorbed Glass Mat batteries, which is what most bikes have today, have the electrolyte absorbed in a fiberglass mat that keeps it from spilling. AGV batteries are usually "sealed" in that you cannot add water to them. But they are vented to allow gasses to escape. Early DieHard car batteries had problems with casings bursting before they put valves in them to let the gas escape when pressures got too high. They are now vented. Batteries that are generically called Sealed Lead-Acid batteries today are actually Valve Regulated SLA batteries. The valve is the vent.

If you want a 6V battery that will not spill, go to your local Interstate battery dealer and tell him what you are looking for in a Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) battery. The challenge will be finding one with terminals that will work for you. He might have an AGM battery that will fit in the battery compt of your bike and have terminals that will work. Most Gel Batteries have what I'll call "electronics" type terminals and do not lend themselves to bikes. Although I do have a small 12V sealed battery for the street tracker I'm building that uses that type of terminal. But I'm making the wiring harness, so it's not a problem.

I thought I read somewhere that there is a modern battery being offered for vintage bikes. I'm sure somebody here can point you in the right direction for those if they exist.

As for chargers, there are some new ones out there that claim they can reverse the damage done by leaving a battery sit discharged for a long time. I'm not convinced this is possible and do not have the chemical background or the battery background to prove or disprove it to myself. Deltran has been making a quality product for a long time. I tend to go with a known product and let somebody else test out the new stuff. Go visit the Deltran website for more info on batteries and charging.

[Glenn]

went to the interstate site I wonder if one of these would work what is the inside dimensions of the hollowed out harley battery

here is what I found on interstate

http://www.interstatebatteries.com


type in harley davidson and agm and it should come up with on 6 v 9 ah

[Robert Luland]

Thanks Rob. Im going to do just that. Pull thjem in the fall line'em up on the bench and keep them charged. Bob

[bmh]

Word to the wise, check those tenders frequently. Had a pair of exide brand tenders, both went wacky the other winter, first one cost me Franklin for the battery it cooked in my FLHT + a new tender. caught the next one before it could take the battery with it. I'm sure it was a fluke, bought Yuasa tenders this time cause thats what they sold where I went shopping.

[Bill Golightly]

How does it "off-gas" ???

[QUOTE=Snakeoil;74313]
What he said was that any current put into the battery when it is fully charged will cause it to "off-gas".

If a sealed batter will work in any position, including upside down, how does it "off-gas" anything? I maybe, maybe could see a pressure related leak, but I do not understand any gas loss.

[Snakeoil]

Battery chargers are little more than a transformer that takes 110VAC power down to 14VDC to charge your battery. They also have some form of automated control circuit that determines the state of charge of the battery and reduces the amperage being delivered accordingly. Newer chargers do this with microchips that do the thinking. Older chargers do it with old fashioned electronics. You can buy charges for a couple of bucks in Walmart that will put 1 amp into your battery and charge it up just fine. They are really no different than the little transformers that come with digital cameras, small TV sets, etc. They deliver a constant current to your battery. But you get what you pay for. I had one of those cheapo chargers burn up in my folks basement when I was a kid. Had a bike battery on charge and happened to go downstairs to do something and there was the smell of smoke in the basement. Charger had shorted internally and was overheating. It might have caused a fire had I not caught it when I did.

That's why I won't buy a cheap charger. You get what you pay for. I actually paid list for my first Deltran BT plus because I bought it directly from them. Since then I got my second one from an on-line dealer for about $20 less. What's nice about the Deltran and other quality chargers is they protect you from boneheadedness as well. I had a brain fart one day and connected a battery backwards to the charger and walked away. Next day I came down and the charger was acting strange. It could tell I had reversed the polarity and would not charge the battery, thus saving it.

Personally, I think buying cheap electrical stuff is like buying a cheap helmet. If it burns your house down, cooks your battery or in the case of a helmet, squashes your head, how much did you really save in the long run?

By the way, when I suggested Interstate, my thought was tell the guy what you want to do and the voltage you need and he might have a battery that will work, but not look like your OEM battery. I often thought that carefully cutting the bottom off a old OEM 6V battery, gutting it and then putting a modern AGM inside connected to the original OEM terminals would be the way to go for a vintage rider. I'm sure somebody has done it already. You just have to be very, very careful. I'd probably dump the electrolyte and dispose of it properly and then flush the battery out several times with plain water. Only then would I start to cut into it and only while wearing rubber gloves, a hat, safety glasses, a face shield, etc.. I'd probably look like I was from the bomb squad but I have this thing about acid getting into the wrong places.