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I sure hope Willie G. decides to get one of the new books.
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Comet motorcycle
Just saw another thread over in Harley pre-1916, where Dick Werner is looking for information about a Comet motorcycle. That's probably some pretty interesting research. I just want to mention here that in Herbert Wagner's new book, "At the Creation", on page 148 there is a picture of a Comet motorcycle.
It sure looks like an early Harley !!!!
What does anybody else think??Comment
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If you read Herb Wagner's book "At The Creation", you'll not only learn that the bike now called "the first" 1903 bike was originally labelled 1905, then later 1903/1904, then finally 1903; but he also discusses how the "first" production bike was actually a 1905.
Like most members, I have a small library of books, but this is the most fascinating one I've read.
JohnnyComment
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He has one.Originally posted by Earl
I sure hope Willie G. decides to get one of the new books.Comment
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Re: Comet motorcycle
Hi Earl,Originally posted by Earl
Just saw another thread over in Harley pre-1916, where Dick Werner is looking for information about a Comet motorcycle. That's probably some pretty interesting research. I just want to mention here that in Herbert Wagner's new book, "At the Creation", on page 148 there is a picture of a Comet motorcycle.
It sure looks like an early Harley !!!!
What does anybody else think??
Long time no talk.
I'll check out Werner's thread on the Comet and add my 2 cents. I'm interested in the Milwaukee Comet too because it is so close to a Harley-Davidson. Kind of like one gave birth to the other and maybe it did. We know more about the Comet now than what appeared in At the Creation.
Still a very elusive mystery machine with obvious Harley-Davidson genes!Comment
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Hi Johnny,Originally posted by Johnny
If you read Herb Wagner's book "At The Creation", you'll not only learn that the bike now called "the first" 1903 bike was originally labelled 1905, then later 1903/1904, then finally 1903; but he also discusses how the "first" production bike was actually a 1905.
Like most members, I have a small library of books, but this is the most fascinating one I've read.
Johnny
Thanks for kind words on the Harley-Davidson book At the Creation. It was certainly an amazing time back in the early years of the gasoline-powered motorcycle.
Very much an untold story until now.
I think Harley's 1st model kept getting older because the competition was so tough that they tried EVERYTHING to beat it. Not just on Bill Harley's drawing table and on the racetrack either, but also on the advertising page! Many years later the museum bike just followed the old myth established at a very early date because the true story had become lost.
It was really something how Harley-Davidson came out of nowhere (er, Milwaukee), and tore up Indian and the rest of the pack in 1905-1909. People commonly think that Indian was leading the way, and that was true in sales by 1905 or so, but that 1st model 1905 Harley-Davidson was a really GREAT modern (for the time) design while poor Indian was still building essentially a 1901 motor-bicycle!
It's no wonder that Harley-Davidson in its advertising a few years later would crow about their SUPERIOR bike and be tempted to challenge Indian's pioneer status. That's probably why they pushed their origin date back farther and farther until they claimed they had been selling bikes in 1901!
So Indian countered that and said they had been selling bikes in 1900!
As real history goes, it doesn't get any better than that. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of that larger story of the 1901-1909 period that is told in At the Creation.
We need more GOOD motorcycle books that are well-researched and documented with original material. Unfortunately the mainstream has turned to unrideable ridiculous choppers and the real history has taken a back seat. That's why it's such a pleasure when a good book comes along.
www.atthecreation.comComment
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Re: Re: Comet motorcycle
Originally posted by HarleyCreation
Hi Earl,
Long time no talk.
I'll check out Werner's thread on the Comet and add my 2 cents. I'm interested in the Milwaukee Comet too because it is so close to a Harley-Davidson. Kind of like one gave birth to the other and maybe it did. We know more about the Comet now than what appeared in At the Creation.
Still a very elusive mystery machine with obvious Harley-Davidson genes!
Hi Harley Creation,
You mentioned that you think the early Comet motorcycle is......"so close"....... to an early Harley-Davidson.
Do you mean in looks?Comment
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Re: Re: Re: Comet motorcycle
Yes, in looks, design, and feature-wise. Werner can correct me here, but I think the Comet even had the same bore & stroke of the same year Harley-Davidson! If memory serves me correctly they both had 3 1/8" x 3 5/16" motors.Originally posted by Earl
Hi Harley Creation,
You mentioned that you think the early Comet motorcycle is......"so close"....... to an early Harley-Davidson.
Do you mean in looks?
Rather curious, eh?
But the Milwaukee Comet was NOT a total copy of the Harley-Davidson. It had some unique features of its own, but I think I'll go over to Werner's thread in the pre-16 forum and write it there. The BIG mystery is the guys who were behind this operation that was located on Galena Street just a few blocks from the Harley-Davidson factory on Chestnut.
BTW, Earl, how is the REAL Earl doing? How is Walter doing? Find anything good for them at Davenport? I heard you guys were on the track of a rare and wonderful FULL OHV 1913-14 Waverley-Jefferson motor but it turned out to be some kind of Mack-derived cycle car engine. So sad....
If there were ever a 1910-1920 book the very exciting Kenzler-Waverley-P.E.M.-Jefferson-Mack-Rowell-Special(?) motorcycle story would be a part of it and how it tied into the Harley-Davidson story.
Too bad they didn't hire Mack at Harley-Davidson. What a team Bill Harley and Perry E. Mack would have made!
We might have seen the Knucklehead by 1920!
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It began in Milwaukee!
At the CreationComment
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Hey HarleyCreation......
You better go back and maybe edit your last posting.
Wasn't the bore and stroke 3-1/8 x 3-1/2
What would you do without a good proofreader????Comment
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Hi Earl,Originally posted by Earl
Hey HarleyCreation......
You better go back and maybe edit your last posting.
Wasn't the bore and stroke 3-1/8 x 3-1/2
What would you do without a good proofreader????
Yes, I was going my memory and got it wrong, but so did you!
By 1909 the bore and stroke of the Harley single as cited in "Cycle and Automobile Trade Journal" 1909 Model Review had been increased to 3-5/16 X 3-1/2. That is also what the Milwaukee Comet motorcycle had. Your numbers are correct for the 1905-1908 pattern Harley-Davidson.
I believe that is right.
However, the Harley-Davidson 1909 catalog and other original factory literature also blew the 1909 bore and stroke numbers. Harley-Davidson gives it as 3-15/16 x 3-1/2 which would have made a honking big overbore engine in 1909!
Unfortunately that GLARING but "official" error was copied by me (duh!) into the At the Creation book (p.160) on early Harley-Davidson which THREE editors also missed!
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It was born in Milwaukee!
At the CreationComment
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Oh,.......
You were talking 1909 models..............
I have to double check myself when talking about that late-model stuff.......Comment
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Yes, I know that the 1909 Model is a little late for you, Earl, but you gotta get into the newer stuff one of these days.Originally posted by Earl
Oh,.......
You were talking 1909 models..............
I have to double check myself when talking about that late-model stuff.......
But thanks for pointing out the error. We don't want to spread false information do we?
Did you ever identify that little early motor as an Erie or ????
Anything going in the Comet thread in the pre-16 forum?
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Harley's Baby Years and More!
At the CreationComment
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Willie G. book
What is the name of his book?
Where can it be purchased?
I tried Barnes & Noble and Borders no luckComment
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