Ode to the 25 Year Rule

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

1968... The times they are a changing. ...Let's 'Tier' that 1 year rule and speed-up to the 70's!.. ..The 'Classics' are coming!.....When they open the field at Oley ....I want to see that 70's' Norton Racer...sittin' next to your ' Injun' Oldie' ...Looking all the part of a 'P-51 Mustang' passing an 'Old' Bi-Plane!.... Come on boys...Let's Bend the Rules...These are THE years...The Classics!...low bars...rear sets...and Avon Speedmasters...OK, so they didn't all come from the Factory that way...BUT THEY SURE AS HELL WERE MEANT TO!....Disc front brake and polished aluminum...My 68' XLCH was looking for them.....Grab some throttle and let her roar!....Names like Lectron...Rickman...and Cafe Racer were trying to take the 'King' CH's.....Those 'Ton-Up Boys' were racing the 'Stop Light Bandits'!...'Week-End Warriors' at the Tracks.!...My Bored and Stroked XLCH with its drag pipes barking...STILL KICKING THEIR ASS!....Looking all the part 'The King'....waiting for the 'Rising SONS' and their Multi-Z's..and those Damned 2-Strokes!....This then are the BEST YEARS OF MY YOUTH!...when I truly 'ATE AND CRAPPED' MOTORCYCLES...Pulling up to those fantastic 'Muscle Cars' with engines revving....Grabbing another hand full of throttle... off the Light ...My Bored & Stroked 'SPORTY' with its MAG spinning...lighting those Champs...and hearing those drag pipes barking!...It would of never gotten 100 points... But it wasn't suppose to!....Come on Boy's let's open the Book!...add a few more years!.....Who'd of ever thought... they'd soon be the LAST OF THE BEST! ....Don't care what they say.... those new 'Super Bikes' are just a bunch of Plastic....48 almost 50...hairs gotten grey...That Old Sportster's long gone and silent ....Come on Boys!....Let's change the rules...don't make me wait Till I'm pushing SIXTY!.......Inside the garage sits memories of my youth.....a '74' Bored and Stroked CH this time...waiting on its Hunt Magneto....Bring it back to stock?....I DON'T THINK SO!...Not this one!.....This 'King' may never wear a 100 point crown....BUT HELL...THIS 'SPORTY' AIN'T MEANT TO EITHER!......The Road Runs are coming....and we'd like to be there....My 'Old' New 'XLCH' and the Nortons.....Sign up ahead reads 'Cafe'.....Hell we'll wait..we don't mind... You and your 'Old Bikes' will catch up in time!....Open the Book Boys and make a Note:....2003's when the Rule was Re-Wrote! ...Aye..brings a tear to these old Irish eyes ...Hrdly-Dangrs

[Pete Gagan]

Great minds do think alike. I have put that one on the agenda for Board discussion at our next meeting in Borrego. It might take a bit of selling, although quite a few are in aggreement. An interesting fact is that when the AMCA was formed in 1954, it catered to those with motorcycles built befor 1930. In 1954, a 1929 bike was 25 years old.
One of our long gone past presidents pushed the idea of extending to 30, and then 35 years, "to keep the Brit bikes out". Unfortunately, his program was quite successful, and many of those enthusiasts have gone elsewhere. This was not the original intent, as Henry Wing Sr. had a 1927 Brooklands Douglas, Henry Wing Jr. had a 1922 Scott, Ted Hodgdon had a 1914 BSA, and Art Sigal had mostly British and European machines. I would like to get opinions on this from the membership.
Pete Gagan, Prez

[61 panman]

It is nice to see so much love on this board today. I think our new president is certainly bringing in an era of a kindler gentler old bike club.
I feel terrible that I had been ruminating on some way to keep the Irish out.
Mea Culpa,
Doug

[61 panman]

Anyway getting serious I for one would be all for a 25 year rule. So count me in. This certainly would bring in more members and more interest into the club. Not that more is necessarily better but 35 year old and older bikes are getting quite pricey. And probably the reason most of us got into old bikes was we could not afford a new one. At the time the reasoning was who wants this old junk. Pretty soon you won't be able to get any replacement parts to fix it, then it is off to the scrap heap.
Here we are generally oldish, ornery, cranky, cantankerous, cheap, maybe a bit smelly, hard nosed, hard headed, dirty fingernailed, independent, kickstartin sons of guns, mostly interested in old motorcycles and the weather (and that covers only the female members) and we cannot embrace our pushbutton startin, fancy pants wearin, dealership oil changin, electric turn signalin, electronic ignition firing, tubeless tire sportin,disc brake stoppin, tea sippin, lite beer drinkin, "Bretherin" whose exhausts don't smoke! just because their bikes were built before 1968.
I hate to put a nametag on anyone but this really has an air of snobbishness to it.
Doug

[AFJ]

A few observations, as an AMCA member for 25 years.

The 35 year rule was generally ignored on the last couple of National Road Runs I was on.

The Canadian Vintage Motorcycle Group (Canadian equivalent of the AMCA) has had a 10 year rule for the past 35 years. It does not seem to have hurt their growth and development in that time.

The Vintage Motor Cycle Club in England has had a 25 year rule for some years. When they first formed in 1946 they had a cut-off year of 1930, thereby accepting bikes only 16 years of age.

While I think that it may well be time to consider seriouly moving to a less restrictive age limitation in order to encourage the preservation and use of a wider range of Classic motorcycles, I also would like to see the National Board do something to encourage the use (in AMCA events) of older motorcycles. This could be the provision of separate routes at National Road Runs for pre-1930 motorcycles, or the promotion of separate Runs only for pre-1930 or even earlier age groups of our historic motorcycles.

If motorcycles of as little as 25 years age are allowed, perhaps Road Runs should be designed for Antique (1930 or older), Post-Antique (1931- 1953) and Classic (1954 to 25 years of age) or some similar grouping. (I chose 1953 as a cut-off for Post-antique to group the popular Indian Chiefs in one category. Others may have a better idea.)

AFJ

[Pete Gagan]

Re 25 vs 35 years

Just one final thought on the 35 year thing- we have a tendency to concentrate on the bikes rather than the people. A few of us, myself included, collect and restore motorcycles for historic or curatorial reasons, and therefore have some really ancient devices made when our grandfathers were young. Most of us though, are nostalgic collectors and riders, and lust after the machines we had, or wish we had when we were young. If you fall into the latter category, and it's to be a bike 35 years old or older, you have to be pushing 60 to be elegible to join the AMCA. Lowering the machine age bar will welcome younger members.

[AFJ]

It is my impression that a good many of the younger and newer AMCA members would be very interested to own, restore and ride the earlier bikes if they had some help and education from the older generation. And I think that there are many younger motorcyclists who would be part of the AMCA and take an interest in the earlier bikes as well. This is based on the great deal of interest shown in my 1927 bike whenever I show up riding it at a later bike event.
What a lot of the younger generation seem to lack is the old-time mechanic's knowledge and instinct in repair and care of earlier machinery. They are so used to the post-WWII parts list/shop manual/parts replacement approach to restoration and rebuilds that they are frightened off by any old bike that does not have a near 100% new replacement parts availability - and a skilled mechanic nearby.
If some of the older ones of us had taken that attitude to some of the bikes we came across decades ago there would be far fewer old bikes - and members in the AMCA.
We need to pass on the accumulated knowledge of how to repair and ride the old bikes to as wide a range of our younger members as possible. I think many "youngsters" would see the care and riding of older bikes as a challenge to be met - and enjoyed.

AFJ

[HJahn]

I guess it depends whether or not the club wishes to remain "pure" or wishes to bring more people into the fold. But with the prices the "real" antiques and classics are fetching, it makes it a more and more exclusive group that either has Big Bucks or bought the "junk" years ago.

How many young people can afford what amounts to a rich man's hobby?

Heck, if it were 25 years my daily ride ('76 BMW) would qualify.

Fancy that!

[L. A.]

Oh hell!

This thread makes me wish I still had my '67 XLCH!!!!!!

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Age is a relative thing

To a kid under 25 years old a Harley Shovelhead is ANTIQUE! I think that a lot of them simply don't yet understand the satisfaction of bringing an old bike back to its original condition and the time and processes it takes. We should remember that our own tastes are most likely far removed from the younger kids today what with those flashy 'Super Bikes', doing 'Wheelies' and watching the older guys riding their modern off-road motorcycles. And this is probably right where we need to get started. There are 9,530 stories (as of Aug 26, 2002) this is a made-up one: We all know that a lot of the members with kids that show interest in their fathers 'Hobby'(?), are pretty much future members. They're fortunate enough to be brought up around the 'Hobby'. But how about that kids friend(s), You know the one(s) that goes with his buddy and his Dad to a 'Motorcycle Show'. He get's that 'spark' and goes home to 'HIS' dad and tells him how great it was! Now his Dad's looking for a Father/Son project and if both are lucky..Bingo.!, we've got a couple potential new members. Great so far..... EXCEPT FOR ONE THING.....A MOTORCYCLE....Got to have one for that project...Dad starts looking thru the paper and if he's lucky he finds an 'old' bike that he can pretty much afford...say a '70's Honda 350??...Ok..so its no Indian, but it's an "AFFORDABLE" project....gets his friend (The old bearded guy with the old bikes)....they get to talking and next thing you know their off to the next AMCA meet 6 weeks down the road with directions in hand!. Lucky for them Dad and son see their good AMCA friend at the show, finds a couple of parts...throw in a pair of T-shirts and a hot dog and life is good!...... No, No Moral to this story...just some key words....AFFORDABLE.....'70's HONDA.....PARTS.....FUN.....FATHER/SON.......POTENTIAL NEW MEMBER(s) and most important 'THE OLD BEARDED GUY AMCA MEMBER' that helped make it happen. Helped create the atmosphere and arena that made available a more diverse selection of affordable motorcycles. Oh yeah and the AMCA Member that sold those 'NEW' old parts that have been laying around his garage for too damn long was happy too!....THE END or rather the THE BEGINNING!........ No animals were harmed in the telling of this story... ....Hrdly-Dangrs

[AdminGuy]

I feel a 25 yr rule would not change anything as it currently stands with the AMCA. I feel other marques have already moved to other clubs. Usually marque specific clubs.

I purposely hang back during road runs so that I can get an opportunity to ride with some of the pre-30 bikes. Listen to the motors. Smell the exhaust. Watch how it handles. and of course, pick up the odd piece that has fallen off.
You know who you are! I really enjoy all the different marques. Keeps it interesting.

Exclusive club - you bet it is. The roots are deep. It won't be changeing over night. Which I feel is good. Sadly, I also feel that it's so exclusive that many young people see it immediately as completely unobtainable and quickly dismiss it.

Knowledge share is a strong motivating factor to join. Many young guys will take night school courses to learn additional skills. If you want the knowledge and have a strong interest - you'll find a way to get it.

Don't forget that the public education system has changed alot over the last 15-20 years. Many 18 yr olds don't understand or care how that modern bike works. Just that it does. Bolt on performance. Disposable culture. Look at the jap custom cars. I feel that's a stepping stone also.

Getting an antique bike back on the road and running well is a major feat for a young person. Having it judged is almost unthinkable for many because of the costs involved. Some sort of stepping stone is helpful. It should be encouraged. Once your bitten by the bug, there is no looking back.

When I'm out talking with other young guys (and a girl or two) involved with antique motorcycles - it's clearly understood that we are truely insane. You do it because you love it, it's in your blood. Not because you can afford it.

The bikes and parts are priced far out of reach of most under 30 people. The non-American stuff is a stepping stone. You grow to appreciate the really earily stuff over time and from exposure to it.

The Dutch have that lending or mentor program for road runs. It gets bikes on the road for the day, and gets guys that are truly interested involved also. I think that's really neat. But I'm not sure if that would ever happen in our club. Hummmm...maybe it could. I'll have to work on that with our chapter.

[AdminGuy]

Hrdly that was a good story. Great stuff! Very true. Everyone starts somewhere. Now we just have to be real nice like-and help stear them in the right direction.

Q. Does the old fellow braid his beard or is it parted in the middle for wind swept hwy action. Tee-hee-hee....
Paul Edwards

[L. A.]

Originally posted by AdminGuy


LOL Admin-Guy!!


I purposely hang back during road runs so that I can get an opportunity to ride with some of the pre-30 bikes. Listen to the motors. Smell the exhaust. Watch how it handles. and of course, pick up the odd piece that has fallen off.
You know who you are! I really enjoy all the different marques. Keeps it interesting.

When I lived in SE Florida, no one would ride next to my best ridin' buddy, 'Bonz'...but I relished takin' my place next to'm!

...Bonz ran a '47 Knuck...he was always losin' parts...the two of us would stop & pull over...sometimes walkin' back down the highway a quarter mile to pick up somethin' he 'lost'!
What a hoot!
... And thank gawd for bailing wire!
He always packed some of that on his bike...made for a quick fix!

The other reason no one wanted to ride back there with'm was because he loved throwin' out those flame balls...but I hafta admit, the first time I heard one blow out, I thought I was shot...LMAO...guess it was just too freaky for the rest of the pack...hehehe!



Getting an antique bike back on the road and running well is a major feat for a young person. Having it judged is almost unthinkable for many because of the costs involved. Some sort of stepping stone is helpful. It should be encouraged. Once your bitten by the bug, there is no looking back.

When I'm out talking with other young guys (and a girl or two) involved with antique motorcycles - it's clearly understood that we are truely insane. You do it because you love it, it's in your blood. Not because you can afford it.

I appreciate the fact that you 'threw' that in...

I remember growing up, the boys from HS would buy an old 'piece of crap'...their words, not mine...work on'm day & night...then go to the drags & run'm...seems kids now-a-days have so much simply handed to them, that they've neither KNOW the importance of these wonderful machines, wether it be a M/C or a car, nor CARE about getting their hands dirty.
Dad...I need a new car...whaa, whaa, whaaa!!
It's a cryin' shame...........

[AdminGuy]

Thanks L.A.

Let me clarify one thing. I'm an insane motorcycle'o'filiack.

British bikes are great fun to ride. Many young guys I have talked to have moved on/up from restoreing british bikes to restore American motorcycles because they hold there value.

Sadly, very few unrestored AM. bikes are still floating around.

If your going to put 4-6 years of your life into a project it's nice to come out ahead a bit. Have something that is not that common. Something that your proud of -as a temporary janitor of history. An investment that's fun to play with.

Not to mention riding behind a guy on a hopped up teenage bike doing 65mph. The first time I saw this, I was scratching my head. I thought -wait a minute- that thing shouldn't be capable of doing 65mph. ......great fun.

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Sure the Earliest American motorcycles are likely to command the highest dollar return for your investment, but not always. Just look at the prices those Vincent's and Brough Superiors are commanding!.... Too many variables in that one. ....Original cost of the machine,.... Replacement parts costs relative to availability,....Demand of the Make or Model itself.....Cost relative to individual parts restoration needs....and so on. And let's not forget one of the most important factors which is the individual(s) own Time and skills. In most cases that can be the most expensive of all! There are still some Antique American motorcycles waiting to be discovered, that's true. But it's more likely that they're going to probably end up in those guy's hands that have the money/means to acquire them. This I can testify to as its happened to me on at least two ocassions. One involving a 50's Indian Chief, but that's a story for another day. So then, where should our youngest members or potential members look for an 'AFFORDABLE' project and what 'TIME' would be reasonable for that 'young' inexperienced Lad or Lass expect to spend before they experience the satisfaction of seeing a project thru to it's ultimate end (Success)? This in 'my' opinion is the 'Classics' as I call them, that were produced from the Late sixties to 1979. These motorcycles (with the exception of a few 'Specials' ) are still plentiful, reasonablely priced and so diverse in sizes as to making available the largest number of 'AFFORDABLE' 100CC to 1200cc range then at any other time in our own Club's history. For Young kids (AS WELL AS SOME ADULTS), 4 years might as well be a life-time. This is not to say that we should encourage instant satisfaction, but rather set a time for the project that is reasonable to keep the kids interest from waning (Theres all kinds of books written about this stuff), while having access to readily available parts and still be able to complete the projects on an 'AFFORDABLE' budget. Pride in ownership, pride in accomplishment and the learning process are our goals. And this applies to older guys that are attempting their first 'Restoration'. Ultimately we want to have these owner's and their machines come to 'OUR SHOWS' and participate as 'MEMBERS' of OUR CLUB. Listen, I'm as guilty as anyone of some fun 'Ribbing' towards my friends with 'Foreign' bikes, but I've met guys that are serious about buying, restoring, collecting and selling those small 1970's Japanese motorcycle as anyone into 'Harleys'. Makes me wish I still had those three 1960's Kawasaki WSS 's I sold cheaply some years ago (Gave them away is more like it)!....What do you say to a guy who asks you when your going to get rid of that Harley and get a real motorcycle like their Triumph??...(They never seen me stand my Sportster almost vertical while shifting thru the gears!!)(Ok, so I'm exaggerating by 10 degrees and I didn't do it on purpose....But still it was pretty cool!).... So let's welcome in these guys into our club....the more the merrier...after all...this is the 'Antique' Motorcycle Club of America...not the 'American' Motorcycle Club......'.. ...Hrdly-Dangrs