On Line Library

[George Greer]

Chris,

If no one will tell ya "Thank You".......

I will.....

Thank you, for posting and sharing information with us...

Here....and at other BB's.

I have tried to download and save EVERY single Harley Maintenance manual that I can find. Regardless of year, IF, I can find it........I save it.

George Greer

[redfred84]

Well put Jeff,
Please excuse any offence in my posts, I guess it was the "accountability" issue that triggered my responce. I have nothing to do with the on-line Library, yet I was already getting fed up with prying comments and paranoia, hence I stepped in. I never even read all the posts, pretty much just the initial one from Ken Kemp (welcome back to civilian life Ken!), and then the last few.
What I do know is that Larry Barnes has been hard at work constructing the on-line Library, and scanning tons of literature. I would bet that he is completely swamped with material to scan, hence the brick wall that Chris may have run into with his generous offer of lending some of his paper. I am afraid that my computor skills are virtually nill, and therefore I can't help with any of those details. From what I know through the two Board Meetings that I've attended, is that this Library is still in its infancy, and well probably take awhile to get up to full speed and production. Hopefully it can be refined as a cheap & easy avenue for member useage, and attract more to the fold.
As for help & volunteering for the Library, now that I've opened my big mouth, I well look into this for us all. I will find out who is on the committee, and try and contact Larry for his requests (if any) and ideas for this. In the meantime, it would help if some of the hard working members of the club could be treated with patience, and to keep the witch hunting down to mellow murmur. (actually, it hasn't been too bad though). Hopefully I can get some info on this soon, and I will post it on this thread when I do. Again, thanks for your patience.
Meanwhile, I can use help & volunteering for my new role in the club as Technical Editor. I have some huge shoes to fill, following Steve Blancard's excellent contribution to the magazine. So I'm on the lookout for any & all technical features there may be out there. Sure, I have plenty of ideas up my sleeve, but getting them suddenly at a production state for the magazine next issue is taxing. I'm trying to build up a resevoir of material for this. So if you can contribute any interesting tech info, new product release, top secret formula, or tricky way of getting off work to do more riding, please don't hesitate to email me with it. Also, there are plenty of new ways for us all to help out the club outlined in the latest magazine issue. The Museum could use mentors, The Vegas Auction needs volunteers, and we could use a bike for the big raffle.
Hang in there for the library, Larry is a good egg.
All the best, RF.

[Chris Haynes]

The Vegas Auction needs volunteers, and we could use a bike for the big raffle.

OK,
What does the club have to do with the Vegas auction?

[Paps]

I'll scan everything for free. Postage to and from would be AMCA expence. Now that is cheap. S&S has already agreed to to host a library for me. All free to the members. It will go on line soon. No extra monies, no salary employees. Free ! Paps

[redfred84]

Chris,
Mid America Auctions has consistantly written a check in appreciation of the AMCA for our volunteered services of pushing, and handling the auction bikes too & from the podium. It is actually gruelling work, and must be alotted in shifts. Together with the local High School Football team, we have been very successfull in running all the behind -the -scenes footwork for this bazaar event. The AMCA volunteers are usually fed, and get a tee shirt, plus get free admission to all 3 days of the event. We may even get a break at the hotel. It's a great way to see the inside "scoop" on these Auctions. BOD member Jim Moore heads up this one. The more of us, the merrier, and the less pushing envolved!
Cheers, RF.

[Chris Haynes]

The more of us, the merrier, and the less pushing envolved!
Cheers, RF.

If there were more Harley's than Indian's there wouldn't be so much pushing.

[Baytown]

G'day Fred.

Hey Fred mate. Good to see you involved with the BOD.
Not a 'Civvie' yet, posted back to Townsville to be with my Wife after 2 1/2 years away, so still in the Airforce.
Re the library, I will be home in a week or so, so after that, I will also scan some decent original brochures and donate them to the club. If they are repeats, then just delete, if they are items that the club doesn't have, then they can go to the library, and or members can lift them from the site, just as Exeric has posted the Excelsior booklet.
I'll put that Australasian 1916 Powerplus booklet as well.
Best wishes and Merry Christmas everyone.

Ken.

[BNSONS]

To charge or not to charge,that is the question.

Very interesting opinions on whether the members should be charged for copies of literature. You can state that people are cheap for not wanting to pay while others are considered greedy for not giving freely. I see nothing wrong with paying the AMCA for copies but maybe they do charge too much. If a person actually pays for literature and out of the kindness of his heart donates it to be given out free, that’s great. But if a little old lady is trying to sell pictures of her late husband on eBay because there’s a market for old motorcycle pictures and you copy it and offer it up to everybody for free her pictures become near worthless: you may as well be a thief. Did not the person selling that one of a kind never before seen literature pay for it? Why would you devalue it and flood the market? Are people that paint bikes for a living expected to give out so many free paint jobs to club members per year? Or the same with the folks that restore bikes; should they have a quota of free work to do? An example: a 36 Knuckle restored to AMCA standards falls into a certain price range. If the restorer gets that bike from the same little old lady for a song, do they pass the saving on to the potential customer? Does the AMCA let vendors in for free after so many years of vending? Of course not. Simply because modern technology makes literature an easy media to share doesn’t mean that it should be devalued. It still has sweat equity even though you have no way of knowing unless you were the one that obtained it. Don’t hate the world because you are unable or unwilling to buy all the things you desire. Spend your hard earned money like everyone else does and buy the things that are important to you. If nothing else you’ll feel like a man and that should be worth something to you. I look forward to your replies.
Dave

[Early Iron MC]

Dave, We're not talking about originals here, we're talking copies, the little old lady's original photo's will not be devalued, they'll be worth more than any copy, many works of art and antiques have been copied over the years and the originals are always worth more then the copies. I think maybe the new AMCA foundation should be funding this library, after all a library is a museum for literature.

[exeric]

Excellent observation Mark. What we have is an on-line store. A library is a free service to a community. . . Big difference. I love original literature and I will always place a premium on the genuine article. A downloaded copy is stictly informational and of NO collectible value.

[William McClean]

Benjamin Franklin is credited as the Father of the Public Lending Library in th U.S. This was in an age when the printed word was a scarcity. Private libraries were around, but access was very limited. Like at a monastary or university . Back in the day before this Communication Age one would have to physically go to the bricks and mortar structure to gain access to this knowledge, enroll as a student, pay the required fees, take the vows of the order, etc.

Franklin's Public library that would let you take the printed word out of the building with the promise of return in an undamaged condition was almost unheard of, but not the first, there is at least one that predates his, located in Scotland.

Our Club and OUR Foundation should pursue the formation of library of Motorcycle liturature. Viewable for free to Club members. Making it availble to club members at a discounted rate below a Non member rate for downloads on your personal printer. If you want the librarian to make a copy an mail it to you so you can get grease on the tech manuals as you are working in the garage, it should cost. More that just the cost of printing and labor.

Where should the Library be housed ? Hello, Foundation..? .

Ther are libraries of containing Motorcycle literature do exist. Perhaps some of our British cousins can tell us how the National Motor Musuem Library at Beaullieu, England deals with requests for information. Or Barber Vintage in Birmingham, AL.

[exeric]

I have been hard nosed and hard lined about this Library issue and I would like to take a moment to clarify my position. I want to make it clear that I do not have any personal issues with anyone about this. To the contrary, I have great admiration and respect for Steve Slocombe and Larry Barnes for what they are attempting to do, and have done thus far. You know, if you really think about this project, it could become monumental in size and value to the membership if it succeeds. From today's vantage point, standing at the bottom of this mountain, it looks monumental to say the least. I do not believe there is a person in this club who would say they don't want this project to succeed because from a selfish point of view, we would all like to have access to a fountain of knowledge that would help us with our motorcycle projects.

As an example of how the library would be accessed by a new or existing member: Imagine you just aquired a poorly restored 1947 H-D FL, or Indian Chief. You know you have wrong parts, aftermarket stuff, and the usual year mix of parts thrown in. You have Bruce Palmer's book, or Jerry Hatfield's book but you want more actual factory info, or just a broad array of stuff from that year. Better yet, maybe a member would transcribe and scan his notes and photos of a 99.5 judged bike that he submitted to the library. This would be gold for someone in the middle of a restoration project.

I contend that our library needs to address these needs and must present an accessable, affordable environment for the members. We are the members and we should be the beneficiaries of this information.

I reluctantly acknowledge that the club may need to make a few bucks from this venture, but I think the current costs to the members for this etherial information is too high. I believe that if the costs could be brought way down, there would be a higher volume of interest.

I know this project is in it's infancy so we should all be a bit more patient, however, please keep the membership informed and involved in the process. There is a vast pool of talent. ideas, and resource among the membership.

[T. Cotten]

My position, pure and simple, is that I cannot afford it.

But then I scrounge in dumpsters to get by, and do not have a collection of museum pieces to gloat over either.

I am obviously not the future of vintage motorcycling, so screw me.

....Cotten

[Paps]

I agree with you Eric, except on the money issue. Dues and other related funds, supported by the membership, pay for it all. Members should have completely free access to a library of data. It was their funding that brought it all about. Membership funds purchased the data. Membership funds donate data. Membership funds do it all. Volunteers are members. They pay their dues too. A library is a good thing. Profiteering from it is another. Paps

[exeric]

Paps, I know what you mean and you're absoutely right. I've talked to fellow members about this and a free library is what the ultimate goal should be, however, I think with this project in it's infancy, maybe the club will need to offset the startup with a bit of cash. 2009 might be a rough year for everyone, including the AMCA. It might be a good idea if the library could hold it's own through this rough time so it could be here when things get better. I know it sounds like I'm back-peddling but I've thought about this a lot and I think the benefits of a real, member's supported, altruistic library would be one of the best features of this club and a primary reason for joining the AMCA. What has made me so reactionary is the lack of communication from above. The BOD needs to talk to us and keep us updated on things like this. Everyone in the AMCA wants this library to succeed, but it will not succeed without member support. If we, (the members) understood the problems and challenges facing the library staff, I'm sure we would be more supportive.