Rhinebeck

[exeric]

I was just talking to a buddy who is at Rhinebeck. His impression up to now is that it's not the super meet that it should have been. He thinks that ebay and gas prices are taking their toll. You never know however, Saturday is usually the big day for most meets so it could get a lot better tomorrow.

[c.o.]

I can't wait to see pics. I hate to think of what I'm missing.

[Robert Luland]

Did it ever dawn upon ya that it's Friday? The real people are still working? Bob

[Paps]

How is vendor turnout ? Paps

[chiefj48]

i just returned from rhinebeck, and it was the biggest meet i have ever gone to. plenty of venders (sold out), but sales were way down for everyone. most people were just buying what they needed, and if something jumped out at them, and was a good deal they were buying. the crowd was THERE on saturday in large numbers!! it's a must go to meet!!! there was something there for everyone!!! time line was a big draw, and it just keeps getting better. sorry no pictures, but i'm sure someone will have a few.

[*JU]

Great day here in MN also! What a fantastic time to be involved in the "sport".... People's interest in the 60's bikes continues to increase and a lot of us lust over finding something a little bit older then what we're riding now.
The crowd was still flowing in at 5:00pm at the Viking Chapter's "Back to the 60's Event" today. Tomorrow will be an interesting day to see how many father's & son's stop in and "remember back when".
JU

[giza]

Rhinebeck

DISCLAIMER:

This post is part "witnessed events" and part opinion/perspective. I am not a volunteer, just a slug vendor who expects things to be done for me If this sounds like whining or complaining - it probably is. However, I try to write the way I see it. Some of what I write may be in ignorance of the facts but I hope it is objective and people will focus on the positives. Its easier to throw a grenade than to clean up after it. This is written through the eyes of a vendor and AMCA member. Feel free to flame, I have a big fire extinguisher

RHINEBECK 2008
As a veteran Rhinebeck vendor I think I can give a reasonably objective viewpoint of what I witnessed. I will use a GOOD, BAD and UGLY format for the report. Here is what I personally witnessed with my opinion and perspective:

THE GOOD

1) Absolutely one of the most beautiful spots to have a gathering. The Hudson Valley of NY has got to be one of the most beautiful spots in the eastern US. Kind of like the Shenandoah Valley with a honking big river. My spot sported a wooden deck with massive trees overhead providing shade all day long!

2) The number of events and the efforts made to make the events happen was more than admirable for a first time national event. Just 3 years ago there we 20 vendors, the last vendor count I heard was near 400

3) The motorcycle timeline topped 300 this year which was more than double last years count

4) Saturday saw a tremendous public influx and interest in the sport. Hopefully this will inspire and spur on new membership

5) It was clear that all of the clubs worked together with a lot of effort to make this happen. Steve Ciccalone did a great job of keeping the vendor moving through the gate and getting us non-pre-registered guys a good spot - thanks Steve!

6) Dan Henke, Steve Barber, Tim Cantele and many, many, many other volunteers worked feverishly to make the meet a success. The amount of time, coordination and effort that it took to bring in all special guests must have been enormous.

7) There some awesome original paint bikes there including one of the best 1928 Harley-Davidson JD's I have ever seen as far as untouched and unmolested - with sidehack!!! There were so many fine bikes, cars, Morgans, tractors, aeroplanes, hotrods, etc. The show was an eclectic collection of some fine motorworks

8) Pavillion buildings for judging, auction and general setup are awesome. They are also a great place to go hide from the sun, rain and wide. Facilities such as bathrooms and showers are great, although there could be more showers at least they had hot water!

9) The security of the site is great. I did not hear of any incidents of theft and I for one felt comfortable enough to leave my site open and unattended to go and fraternize with friends and find goodies

10) A fantastic vacation spot with much to see and do, the Rhinebeck Aerodrome is just one example. In the heart of the "Hudson School" where some of the world's most famous artists have come to live or were trained.

THE BAD
1) The general concensus amongst vendors I spoke to was that sales were way off. For some of us who shut down our shops it was a large net loss. Please keep in mind my views are based on the sales of antique Harley parts and the results of European and othe domestic makes are not known. I believe there are several factors involved;

i) Economy and gas prices - These have really affected the general buying community. The spend was based on what was needed and not on wants. Prices are skyrocketing. An original set of 1929 JD headlamps sold for $2500! What was once an affordable hobby has gone the way of the Shelby, Hemi Cuda and Corvette.

ii) Grounds Layout & Navigation - The grounds are awesome and convenient. However it is some of the convenient features that cause vendors to suffer. Because the pavillion is centrally located unlike Davenport IA, the vendors are split up basically into 3 main areas. This tends to drive foot traffic into certain areas and not others due to the shear size of the event. If the event were held in the parking and camping fields it the vendors could be aligned in "streets" and makie it much easier to navigate.

THE UGLY

Here are things I considered ugly or obnoxious. Granted there are probably "good reasons" tied to them including financial requirements, insurance, etc, etc. But other meets such as Harmony NJ (one of the most financially lucrative meets) failed because of these issues:

1) Naz* control over vendor comings and goings. I'm sorry but being told that I cannot leave the grounds to get a good cup of coffee across the street OR that I cannot pack up and leave the grounds before 5:00 on Saturday is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

Not everyone can stay until Sunday and that is just the way it is and will continue to be. The AMCA has been struggling with this for years. Sundays are always a mere smattering of members trying to get their bikes judged

2) I heard it said that "the show is not about the vendors." If this is in fact true then there should be no reason to try to limit a vendors comings and goings - EVER. Can anyone imagine going to Perkiomen just for show and judging? Move judging to Saturdays, make the public a part of it, give it some real hooplah. I've been to Oley, Wauseon, Davenport, Jefferson, Hebron, Brookfield and every single one of these events has about 15-20% attendence on Sundays including public traffic. Davenport, one of the largest meets, is a veritable ghost town on Sunday by 11:00 AM on Sunday

3) I definitely got the feeling from the grounds management that as a vendor I was a second-class citizen

4) Prodigous and, annoying use of loudspeaker announcements at times pontificating demands on the serfs. At times I thought we were on the Bounty with captain Bligh barking commands. Maybe this is due to the fact that the powers-that-be were getting whined at by the membership, or members were enacting stupid human tricks (like racing up and down the fairway at 2:00 AM waking up half the camping vendors as well as emperiling themselves as well as others) - I do not know, however it seemed as though we were in the "yard" with the "general population" at the local pen.


MY PERSPECTIVE

This is a very good show. I was truly impressed what can be done in 3 short years. Events of this magnitude don't just happen. The number of bikes and cars in the parking lot on Saturday were an indicator of the hard work put into the program. The number of outside groups who joined the festivities was amazing. Seeing a pre-1900 De Dion moto cycle on the line up was unbelievable. Seeing more than one Brough at an AMCA meet was great! Everyone did and great job of making Rhinebeck a success. My hats off to everyone from the vendor with 3 items in his trunk, to the newbie building his first chop, to the Deere guys, Aeroplane enthusiats to the Rhinebeck Show team and AMCA participant clubs.

AMCA events are in peril due to rising costs of travel and cost of parts. "Knucklehead Fever" as we say has driven the cost of the hobby beyond that of the average kid to ever build a bike. The prices of VL's, JD's and other early bikes have skyrocketed (and yes I'm partly responsible.) I personally witnessed the purchase of a set of 1929 J headlamps for $2500! Yes I'm H-D centric in my views, sorry, but I see this happening with almost all other badges.

Only time and proper marketing will prove whether or not these events will survive. Hershey and Carlisle are still alive and well, but they are also vendor centric and I don't see how you can keep an AMCA event alive without vendors. The public interest to come in and see shiney mechanical bits isn't enough, just look at the number of failing auto and motorcycle museums. For myself I'll be a spectator at next years' show.

All the best wishes to the Rhinebeck team and all the clubs that are cooperating to make it a big success.

ACE

[Robert Luland]

Just rolled in the door. What a show! I wasn’t too happy with shelling out $25 clams for a two-day pass but in the end it was worth it. Stopped by the national booth and question them about the fee and they said it was the fair grounds not them. Something doesn’t make séance? The time line was great. Pap’s, the vender turn out was good but Oley was better. You get tired of seeing the same old milk crates with the same old busted crap in them. Now the down side. HOT, HOT and sticky. The rain held off until around 3:00 Saturday afternoon. Sunday morn wasn’t much better. I mean it was brutal walking around there. Bob L

“Any man that forsakes freedom for security deserves neither.”
1 800 NRA JOIN

1948 FL
1957FL
1960FLH
1965 XLCH
2006 FLHT
Five more in crates with good paper!
Restore for life, Restore for the next generation!

[WLAHAL]

Rhinebeck reflections

I was there as a (small-scale) vendor. My spot was in kind of a 'dead zone' as far as foot traffic. I got there Friday mid-day, set out a few bikes, got some lookers, but no serious offers. Saturday, when the walk-in foot traffic increased, I ended up selling one, and took a deposit on another. One buyer was there Friday but didn't find my spot then. The other buyer was a Saturday walk-in. He bought the bike because it was 'just like the one I had as a kid, and always regretted selling'.

Over the years, the 'inner-sanctum' AMCA guys show up earlier and earlier in the week to snap up all of the 'good stuff'. For many of them, the meet is over on Friday evening, and it is time to regale in great scores, which will never be seen for sale at the meet (but will show up on ebay). I have been told by one of them "Hey, the meet is over by Thursday night. If a guy isn't there Thursday early, they won't get the 'good stuff', and might as well stay home". Many of the biggest venders leave early on Saturday. Because of that, when 'the working man' shows up looking for parts for his or her bike, the selection to be looked through is not as good as it could be. I think this is hurting the hobby. If there isn't enough selection to be found on Saturdays, there is less incentive for walk-ins to show up. Combine that with an expensive admission fee, and the incentive to attend is even lower. I used to do a lot of gun shows, and we used to love it when 'civilians' would come in with their old gun to sell. As the years went by, the entry fees went up, and the number of 'economical' old-timers walking in decreased. If we want to attract street traffic coming in, we should keep the single-day entry fee very low. Who know's what might pop out of the woodwork then? As far as leaving on Saturday, my schedule dictates that I must, when I am at meets that are a long distance from where I live. Rhinebeck is close enough to me that I could stay Saturday night and leave Sunday morning. This year I couldn't because of family commitments. Being told "You cannot leave until 5:00..." is very abusive to vendors. How long a vendor chooses to stay should be their own decision (but hopefully they will choose to stay at least till 1:00 or 2:00 p.m.). Next year I plan to bring the family. Then I will be able to stay Saturday night. Hopefully they will be able sleep through the occassional bobber with straight pipes screaming through the meet at 3:00 a.m. with no regard to those folks who are sleeping! It was just great to see the time line with all of those fantastic bikes. I have never been interested in getting anything judged, so I rarely brought anything to a meet to show. Now I can't wait for the next time line, so I can bring another one! As usual, I met a lot of new friends, got to visit with old ones, and had a wonderful time. All in all, it was a fantastic show!

[tmul1]

Great show but

This was a great show better then I ever could have imagined. BUT I really did not like the fact of the 15$ one day fee did they charge a fee for the tractor show before we came . Now for my real problem you can not enforce only the rules you want to and not the others such as (1) Cant enter grounds till 12 vendors were set up at 10 and selling so I missed the early deal thanks for that (2) No riding motorized vehicles on grounds under 16 years old this went on all day thurs fri and sat (and I loved watching them have fun) (3)This is the one that sent me over the edge no leaving of vendors till 5pm saturday since when are we held to a time we can come and go Im sorry but I spend my life being told what to do its not going to happen to me on my vacation when I complained and asked to talk to someone about it at my spot they were nice enough to come over with a police officer who agreed with me that my family at home comes first not the club I have to pay to belong to . I was escorted out by this police officer with his lights on (THANK YOU SIR IT WAS VERY KIND OF YOU TO HELP ME ).Why did I have to be escorted to my spot but I could not be escorted out on saturday . I will be there next year and like everybody else I spoke to we will pack up on friday and move my stuff outside the gate and walk around in the morning and leave when I want to . All the other stuff I could care less about but this pissed me off. Sorry about the negative post but whats with all the rules ?????

[INLINE4NUT]

Interesting Posts to say the least!This meet is going to be the way the club will go then something may happen as it always does at large gatherings...TROUBLE! then people may or may not stop comong and maybe instead of getting BIG we can concentrate on smaller regional meets,people are more likely to go to a closer meet nowadays just because of the fuel costs.Dont get me wrong I wish for nothing but the best for this meet! Dan Henke has always been a classy GENTLEMAN, just like the rest of the crew putting in their free time to make this work,maybe with some feedback they can make everyone smile ! I didnt make it this year but enjoyed all the pictures of it posted here and WILL go next time around! Hats off to all the fine people that made it happen!

[exeric]

I've never been to a bad motorcycle meet. As long as there are a few motorcycles and some parts for sale I'm happy. Having said that, there are some meets that make me happier than others. Rhinebeck '08 sounds like a mixed bag. The photos posted by the Professor here on the forum show us a lot of great bikes but almost every letter so far conveys an undercurrent of disappointment. The rigid vendor rules and police presence are disturbing to say the least. I remember when the Volusia police took an active intrest in the swap meets around Daytona during bike week in the mid '90's. The swap meets never recovered because vendors swore never to return. And they didn't. Bikers have long memories and a strong sense of justice. If the Rhinebeck facility requires a police presence then it may be the wrong facility. I think the AMCA track record for peaceful, well organized meets is remarkable and certainly doesn't warrant police protection.

WLAHAL made a real good point about privledged cherry picking by some of the big shots and their well connected buddies. I've vended here in Florida and Oley and you always see the same characters digging through the swap meet before the gates open. Unfortunately this will never end and it's also a common occurance at non sanctioned meets too. It's human nature and survival of the earliest. As a vendor it first come first served.

I don't want to sound too negative because I'm all for as many national meets as possible. Everyone in our club should be able to go to a meet nearby. However, I don't think the "super meet" is the answer, and especially a super meet with an elitest flavor. Also, the Half Moon Bay thing in northern California sounds like something the AMCA should avoid at all costs. Generally speaking, this is still a working man's hobby, and I think the AMCA should strive to appeal to that majority.

[giza]

Tim,

I beg to differ on the grounds operators attitude toward vendors. My post was largely positive. What I wrote was not just my opinion, it was the concensus of many vendors. Notice I did not complain of the police presence, they never bothered me or anyone I had spoken to. Their stopping bikes for excessive speed on the grounds was a positive as far as I am concerned. If we don't express our opinions things cannot be addressed and or if necessary fixed.

Regards

Pete

[giza]

Tim,

I can understand that. However, the Duchess fairgrounds have a rear exit that could be used for vendors who need to leave on Saturday. Also, putting a curfew will encourage many vendors who cannot stay beyond 12:00-1:00 PM on Saturday to leave on Friday which isn't good for anyone. I don't know how many vendors left before 5:00 PM, I left at 3:00 PM and it wasn't a mass exodus, maybe 10 vendors at most. Thank you for the compliments on the post. I enjoy writing very much so. All the best to the Rhinebeck team.

Pete

[billpedalino]

Rhinebeck Meet

I was a Vendor at the Rhinebeck meet, sharing two spaces with Rich and Richie Brown (the generator guys) and in my opinion, it was very well run. Friday was typically slow, as its a work day. Saturday showed much better attendance, but the threat of rain and probably fuel costs may have kept some members away. But from my perspective, attendance looked great and the time-line was truly an inspiring spectacle for all of us who appreciate old iron that was manufactured (to quote Jay Leno) "when labor was cheap and technology was expensive".

Another point concerning attendance; Vendor prices have climbed substantially over the past couple of years. Case in point - the $750.00 price tag on a far less-than-perfect Knucklehead front fender lamp. And there are many other examples that I can cite as well. AS I'm no longer in the mortorcycle business, I don't do this as a profit-making endeavor. I occasionally sell and always buy for my own addicition only and in my opinion, prople don't have to come to AMCA meets to pay these prices. They can stay home and be ripped-off on Ebay and avoid the expense of travel and the associated inconvenience. Vendors really should consider their price point. I certainly do - and I was cheaper than most others and and I did pretty well.

Another criticism; some of us heard that during the meet the organizers were discussing a requirement that vendors had to stay until 5:00 on Saturday and that if they left early, they would not be able to return as Vendors next year. I left at 3:00 or so on Saturday and nobody said anything to me. However, if this requirement is to be inacted, I would not WANT to Vend next year. Some say that the events are more about the members and not the Vendors. I say that's fine, but drive down Vendor attendance and watch what happens to the walk-in traffic..... Besides, Vendors are members too. I took a day off from my business on Friday in order to attend. This certainly has a negetive impact. I also incurred the expense associated with renting my space and driving up, and it's a long drive home from Rhinebeck. I need to get back at a reasaonable time on Saturday night. Please don;t tell me when I can leave the yard - to that, I must, and will 'strenuously' object.

I have never witnessed any vehicle/pedestiran problem associated with early Vendor departure. My experience at AMCA meets is that cars, trucks and other 4-wheeled vehicles proceed with MUCH caution and respect for the walking public. I may stand corrected, but I have never seen an exception to this behavior at any of the meets that I attend, except by the speedo's motorcycle guys running their bikes at 25 mph along side pedestians, including children. I understand that the Club is attempting to stop this behavior and I applaud these attempts. Don't get me wrong - we were all young motorcycle guys, and we all rode like the wind. But there's a time and place for such things and a family-friendly event it not it.

The 5:00 Saturday is an unfair requirement and is patently wrong. I respectfully urge the organizers not to attempt its enactment and tarnish an otherwise wonderfully organized and run event.


Another Criticism; Turn down that damn awful loud speaker! Annoying to all! Walk-in's and Vendors alike - and they were quite vocal about it.

Despite my whinning and crying, I must express my appreciation, respect and thanks to the organizers. This was obviously not an easy task and all-in-all, this was extremely well done! Thanks to all for the your generous gift of time and for your considerable efforts. both were recognized and appreciated by anybody with any remaining cerebal matter. As for my complaints, I'm sure that the bugs will get worked out.....

Bill Pedalino
Member - Big Sandbar Chapter