whats up with this incorporated thing?

[hacksaw]

in regards to the editorial in the latest issue of the Antique Motorcycle. we need some further explanations on why the Club treasury was split off to some Foundation that Club board members will eventually not be representated on. on the surface, that seems very elitist .

what happened to the Indian Prototypes the club bought at considerable membership expense? what happens to Club Tshirts sales and vendor fees?
and why couldnt the club as it existed be brought into IRS compliance?
anything that involves lawyers , and the fact that the out going club pres (and now Foundation Director!) felt need to mention having them on retainer,
raises red flags.

and importantly, why do the general membership find out about these things, in this case a hugely important thing, so after the fact?

i will reserve further comment untill i hear more on this subject.

[TCB]

Yes, tst, hacksaw can go back and read why ex. Pres. Gagan said it was necessary to split the club but I agree with hacksaw when he said,"and why couldnt the club as it existed be brought into IRS compliance? " I thought this all along, we don't need to accept gifts and give grants if it means tearing the club up as it has. The grants we have given and the gifts we have gotten are so very minor that we should have done without that in order to stay as united as we were. Now half the members money is part of a foundation that has no accountability to the members at all. We will never know how it is used.
We also have lost several great member advocates. No one seems to know who the real "Players" are in this whole thing.
From what I've heard from several people and what I've read here it seems like the AMCA has been hijacked by a few with total disregard for fellow board members and, as I said before, the members. It feels to me like a self-promoting move by a few.

[Buzz Kanter]

The recent buzz word has been transparancy. And I also feel the clubs decisions and direction need to be more transparant to the members BEFORE actions are taken, not after.

Let's not fall into a "Ask forgiveness rather than permission" style on subjects as important as this.

[exeric]

There is not a singel piece of business the AMCA conducts that should be kept from the membership. A club like this has no reason to be doing back room deals or secret transactions. If anyone in this club is doing that, then it's wrong.

Any profit this club generates should be given back to the membership in the form of more magazines, better delivery of the magazine, cheaper dues, or anything that benefits the general membership.

Leadership is tough, there is no question about that, but if the leaders and the members are going in the same direction then things would run a lot smoother. The leaders need to give us members an idea of what they're doing and where they're going.

If the AMCA needs a lawyer on retainer then I predict rough seas ahead.

This is all basic stuff. It only gets complicated when someone thinks of "ME" and not "WE".

[jww]

Buzz,
With all due respect, I haven't heard "The Board of Directors" ask the membership for either. And in accordance with "The By-laws of The Antique Motorcycle Club of America, Inc.", they are not required to do so.
There are a magnitude of issues that I do not understand, but the fact of there being no requirements for accountability to the membership is not a mystery. It is, be it right or wrong, the result of the structure of the Corporation.

[exeric]

Then we have a shakey structure.

[jww]

Eric,
I agree with you completely. Nevertheless, nothing prohibits (other than lack of desire) the B.O.D. from recognizing the importance of communication with the source of its existance, ITS MEMBERSHIP. Time will tell how a new blend of leadership will address this important issue. I sincerely hope that every member of our club will refrain from personal attacks, its not a personal issue. The Antique Motorcycle Club of America, Inc. is a BUSINESS. And good business decisions are not made with or thru emotions. Time will tell who steps up to be the LEADER's. We won't exist without LEADERSHIP.
johnny whitsett

[vldave]

What's Up with this Incorporated Thing?

Hacksaw

I can’t take credit for this question, but if needs to be repeated: A great friend and current AMCA member ask me this question:

If the AMCA had to split the club and move $450,000 dollars to a foundation, just to get into compliance with the IRS, when did we get OUT of compliance with the IRS?

A great question that needs to be looked at more closely.

We as members trust the Board is steering the club in the right direction. I am very new to the club and jumped in with both feet. My intentions were to contribute my time and efforts to an organization of enthusiast who share the same passion as I do. It didn’t take long for me to see there are many hidden agendas behind what seems to be 11,800 people who love antique motorcycles. Working with Rick Schunk was a great experience! He saw this hijack coming and wanted NO part of it. It ultimately cost him the Editor position after 18 years of hard work and dedicated service. He resigned because of pressures received from calling the Cow a Cow!

I sent a resignation letter to the Board stating that I would not be renewing my contract as Advertising Manager in 2009, but would continue the remaining 2008 calendar year as stated in my contract, and then the decision was made to terminate my services early. A decision I can live with. What was disturbing was the hint that this decision came as a result of cleansing the loyal Rick Schunk personal. The only problem remains, the summer edition magazine has been mailed to the members listing me as the Advertising Manager. I will have to field calls and emails for 3 months concerning advertising and Trash / Treasure ads.

Pat Williams was also a Merchandise Manager / Board member who didn’t like the direction the club was heading. He was present at the last Board meeting in Florida and has resigned as Merchandise Manager and Board Member since that meeting

Michael Wells has resigned as the Web Master – I haven’t spoken with him, but have been told it was a result of the same issues.

Anyone who knows me will tell you I am a straightforward individual: I consider my style of personality to be a "meat & potato" type person. I don't have a power struggle agenda or give a Rat about all of this political crap going on up the ladder above the member base. It is clear the AMCA members are in the dark. Let us hope 11,800 members are not being lead to the slaughter and don’t even realize it. My Dad taught me long ago: Where there is Smoke, there is Fire! – And I smell Smoke!

I don’t mean to sound like a busy body, but the members are not being informed.

I end this post with this:
Pay my $30 dollars per year to the AMCA, read my 4 magazines, access the web and don't worry where my $30 dollars is going. Spend my efforts and time in the Local Chapter. (Hopefully – the quality of the magazine will still be worth the $30)

If you work at McDonalds - You probably won't eat a Big Mac!

[pem]

This last post by "vldave" has really gotten my attention. If 1/4 of the things he says are
true this should raise some red flags. If they are all true look out. I would really like to hear from Rick and the other people who have recently left their positions with our club. I hate to put them on the spot but it would really help to answer some questions. I can only imagine what a new member must be thinking after reading these posts. The only person mentioned in these posts that I have had personal contact with was Rick and I must say he was very easy to work with and put out an outstanding magazine. I wish his successor all the best and look forward to more great issues.

Also, the thought has crossed my mind more than once as to why our club didn't join forces with the National Motorcycle Museum in Anamosa, Ia. Talk about being centralized. And it's just down the road from the AMCA's largest national meet. From a practical point of view it would seem to make sense to me but I don't know if the National Motorcycle Museum would have even been intersted. Just a thought.

Dick Werner

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Eric,
I agree with you completely. Nevertheless, nothing prohibits (other than lack of desire) the B.O.D. from recognizing the importance of communication with the source of its existance, ITS MEMBERSHIP. Time will tell how a new blend of leadership will address this important issue. I sincerely hope that every member of our club will refrain from personal attacks, its not a personal issue. The Antique Motorcycle Club of America, Inc. is a BUSINESS. And good business decisions are not made with or thru emotions. Time will tell who steps up to be the LEADER's. We won't exist without LEADERSHIP.
johnny whitsett

We are a NON-PROFIT Corporation. Corrrect me if I'm wrong, but per the IRS tax code we are NOT suppose to attempt to acquire any substantial amount of funds above normal operating costs and a small percentage for future events. Perhaps having a net 1 Million bucks in the bank acct triggered the IRS to want some of it by labelling us a For Profit Corporation??

Anyway... why couldn't we use the money to get some better Field Meets going...perhaps a couple of Meets with a Race Track so we could race our bikes around or our own Hill Climbs or other Time Trial events. I'm sick of looking at parked bikes. Why the hell can't we have our own Sanctioned Competition events. Hell we have a local race track up here in North West New Jersey that can be rented out for a few days at a time by anyone for a couple grand. Probably could get negotiate with the track owners for a four day event for members only...screw the general public. Hrdly

[Lonnie]

Pete does a good job of explaining the distinction between a 501(c)3 and a 501(c)7 organization in the Summer mag. This was also discussed in great detail at the President's meeting in Davenport last year. I made it a specific point to address all the same points to our chapter membership in a report on the meeting that I wrote for our newsletter and fielded questions from our members at our chapter meeting thereafter. Hopefully, if you are a member of a local chapter and one of your officers attended you were also informed. If anyone would like a copy of the report I wrote, PM me and I can send it to you in a Word document.

Re the $ in a treasury for an org. such as ours, we were told the IRS uses a rule of 2-1/2, meaning that the treasury should hold an amount about equal to 2-1/2 time the average expenditures. An exception is where a non-profit was building up the treasury for a major expenditure, which could include saving for land and a building for a clubhouse.

Pete also noted that the bulk of our club membership lives in the Northeast as is quite evident in reviewing our roster. As a charter member of the Classic Chevy Club ('55 - '57 Chevys) back in the mid '70's I noticed this same pattern for collector cars even then. Most of the members were located in the Northeast and that is also true for the AMCA. And not putting down the good folks from Iowa (especially the Church of Choppers and the Chief Blackhawk Chapter), though it may have a more central geographical location it is not in the center of our membership. As an example, I can travel from SC to Hershey in about 9 hours, Davenport is 17 hours! Of course on the flip side, a member in the Northwest would find the opposite to be true. This means, of course, that somebody somewhere will be unhappy no matter where it is located!

That area is a hotbed for collector cars and bikes of all types, antiques and otherwise, witness the many events at Carlisle and Hershey.

From what I see and hear, it seems that the BOD have learned a lesson on communication as a result of what they have read on this forum and in emails and calls they have received. You may have noted in the minutes published in the mag that they intend to have each board member as a contact person for several chapters in order to enhance that communication with all chapters having a board member assigned. Personally I feel that there should be a division of the US, Canada and Europe into areas and that there should be a board member from each area so that each geographical area is represented. That board member could function as the ombudsman for the chapters and members in that area, a true representative in effect. If you agree, open a line of communication to the board members and bring that subject (or any other) up as a proposal.

Lastly, give it a chance.

Lonnie C. from SC

[hacksaw]

no club loses this many good people in official positions if the deal was a good one. it may have been legal, but from the sound of it, well, it just doesnt seem right.

i must say i didnt realize just what a hornets nest this was. and its too bad.
with 450 grand, there could have been our own museum and race course.

this is all very AMA like, and why i dont belong to the AMA.
as far as the ohio museum goes, i beleive they just combined with one in sturgis? anyways, it AMA controlled, which imho, is something to stay out of getting involved with.

now i will have to go back and reread the article , and search for the thread here from 8 weeks back. if i recollect right, eventually there cannot be any over lap between the club and the foundations boards? hopefully the baord members behind this split will be eased out one way or the other and we can get a new board thats more accountable to members in the field.

that may require a change in how board members are selected. this biz about a liason to chapters seems nonesense. chapters should be represented on the board.

now for 30 bucks i cant complain, but i was considering getting more involved since i have retired. at the moment, i dont belong to a chapter. the local chapters yearly event has been eclipsed by the rheinbeck super meet, so i dont know whats actually to become of individual chapters in the face of big regionals. all i know is i love old bikes, but i am genuinely startled by this turn of events.

[portagepan]

nothing new

As any organization grows, these issues come up. I'm afraid the days of old are gone. I have only been a member for a few years, so I don't know the club history except from reading, and talking to members. An organization of over 11,000 won't be the same as one with a few hundred. Communication is the big one in any large organization. And now the big money is here. I wonder about the club owning things. And a museum? Seems there are quite a few of them already. But that is just my opinion. A big change will be the entry(hopefully) of Japanese, and other brands to the club, if that is what we really want. Why don't we just get together tonight, after a ride, and have some burgers, and maybe someone can help me with my Panhead. It is the only older bike I have, and can afford. I won't be flying to european meets, etc. I do have an extra set of plastic saddlebags I fixed up, if someone needs them.
Mike

[c.o.]

Yup, Mike things have gotten awfully political lately. It will be nice when things settle down and the talk revolves around old bikes again. If I were a little (or maybe a lot) closer I'd join you for that hamburger...........

[Paps]

Maybe we ought to consider transferring to a foundation ? Does not matter what the bank account reads with those. Just a thought. Paps