New WINTER '07 Issue (p.29): Harley's Kewl KL Proto!

[HarleyCreation]

I'd seen photos of Harley's Model KL prototype in a couple books over the years but with very little explanation. This may be the first time it's been placed into the bigger picture of Harley's grand strategy in the late 1940s & early 50s that FINALLY resulted in the ohv XL Sportster of 1957. That was one LONG wait.

The KL (KL => Kewl Looking?) is an exotic motorcycle and shows what Harley was really aiming at in order to fight off the Brit competition as a replacement for the old Flathead 45. The KL was the dream "Sportster" that was supposed to be.

I wonder what the KL's output really was and how well it actually performed on the road? One thing is certain and that's what a unique and exotic looking package it was. Just watch out for those side exhaust pipes: "Ouch!"

How about it you artist-machinist replica bike builders? How about creating an exotic KL high-cam similar to the bike in these photos of the factory prototype?

There's gotta be a millionaire out there who needs one!

The KL chassis looks similiar to the standard Model K chassis so that part would be child's play. In "Ride Free Forever" (p.276) there's a photo of the KL crankcases (with the timing cover off). HDMC still owns these parts as this was the motor wired to the wall in the Experimental Department for many years as a memento as mentioned in the article, although for some reason the guts don't seem to be there.

Too secret to for us to see or something?

[aka HAWG]

Re: New WINTER '07 Issue (p.29): Harley's Kewl KL Prototype!

There's gotta be a millionaire out there who needs one!

as long as the builder told the millionaire it was fake but then it would not be worth a million now would it?????

aka HAWG

[elt]

Harley creation
You are right someone should build a repop of the KL.And it is about time we all stop worying about the reproductions.One can build a brand new knuckel head for about half the price of a real one in like condition.Lets face it the old bikes are more fun to a lot of us .The repops dont bother the value of the real ones wich get stuck away in a collection.I can see in the future creating a judgeing class for them in the AMCA. I think the belt drive singels would be fun on a cross country ride. I personaly know that 15 Whizzers togeather on a 50 mile ride is about as fun as it gets.The puplic thinks so to they gather around you at every stop and give you the thumbs up on the road.The homebuilts on P44&P50 in the winter mag are a great example of bikes that would never be enjoyed any other way.And same on the KL harley if it is done.One of my future projects is a model #1 Harley .I backed of starting the crankcase and cylinder castings when all the repops started showing up.Reason being I would rather buy the castings then make patterns.If I have to make patterns to I will sell castings.Yes Herb I have your book and a Onex scale model.
elt
47Whizzer,56Eagle,58Pan,74R90/6 ,+ project bikes

[HarleyCreation]

Re: Re: New WINTER '07 Issue (p.29): Harley's Kewl KL Prototype!

Originally posted by aka HAWG
There's gotta be a millionaire out there who needs one!

as long as the builder told the millionaire it was fake but then it would not be worth a million now would it?????

aka HAWG

I didn't mean to pass it off as the real thing. Sorry if I gave you that impression.

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by elt
Harley creation
You are right someone should build a repop of the KL.And it is about time we all stop worying about the reproductions.One can build a brand new knuckel head for about half the price of a real one in like condition.Lets face it the old bikes are more fun to a lot of us .The repops dont bother the value of the real ones wich get stuck away in a collection.I can see in the future creating a judgeing class for them in the AMCA. I think the belt drive singels would be fun on a cross country ride. I personaly know that 15 Whizzers togeather on a 50 mile ride is about as fun as it gets.The puplic thinks so to they gather around you at every stop and give you the thumbs up on the road.The homebuilts on P44&P50 in the winter mag are a great example of bikes that would never be enjoyed any other way.And same on the KL harley if it is done.One of my future projects is a model #1 Harley .I backed of starting the crankcase and cylinder castings when all the repops started showing up.Reason being I would rather buy the castings then make patterns.If I have to make patterns to I will sell castings.Yes Herb I have your book and a Onex scale model.
elt
47Whizzer,56Eagle,58Pan,74R90/6 ,+ project bikes

I like your idea of a repro bike judging class! That would give them a home and distinction of their own. As you say, the repro movement is not going away and why should it? The desire for antique motorcycles far exceeds the supply and it's easier for some guys to build one from scratch or perhaps cheaper to hire someone to build one for them. This fabulous Harley KL high-cam is a perfect example and opportunity to re-create a bike that was suppose to be Harley's savior of the 1950s but very poorly known and that very little has been written about until now. But of course it should be acknowledged (if built) as a reproduction bike.

A 1905 H-D "Model One" project? That's great! Let us know how it goes and good luck. I'd like to have one of those babies myself but who wouldn't? Please keep us posted on your progress.

[aka HAWG]

I was sending out a jab to a certain person

I in no way believed or wanted anyone to claim it to be real

good idea on a "fake" class but wouldn't that mean you would need a "FAKE" trophy - lol

aka HAWG

[Rub]

The British motorcycle scene is full of reproduction models, BSA Goldstars, Matchless G50s, even Vincents! The buyers know exactly what they are buying for BIG bucks and are happy to have them. They are buying a chance to enjoy something that they may never otherwise get a chance to. They also use their old machines far more than WE AMERICANS (who are far too concerned with value to ride them). I say bring on the replicas and if someone can afford to buy and use them more power to them.
Robbie

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by aka HAWG


good idea on a "fake" class but wouldn't that mean you would need a "FAKE" trophy - lol

aka HAWG

Yeah, I forgot, the trophies handed out now are 24 caret solid gold. Thanks for the reminder.

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Rub
The British motorcycle scene is full of reproduction models, BSA Goldstars, Matchless G50s, even Vincents! The buyers know exactly what they are buying for BIG bucks and are happy to have them. They are buying a chance to enjoy something that they may never otherwise get a chance to. They also use their old machines far more than WE AMERICANS (who are far too concerned with value to ride them). I say bring on the replicas and if someone can afford to buy and use them more power to them.
Robbie

I hate to say it, but the Brits have been ahead of us several times in the past so why not with repro bikes and their proper place in this hobby & sport?

This KL seems like a wonderful opportunity to recreate a bike that we know existed in prototype form but was never produced. How many of those do we have in the historical record? Very few!

Can you imagine if somebody pulled up at a meet with a replicated Model KL?

It would be a SENSATION!

I never thought much about Sportsters or K models, but recently have changed my tune now that I fully understand the scenario in which they were invented and entered the marketplace. Harley's often criticized caution and tardiness makes sense when you look at what happened to poor Indian after WWII.

The high-cam KL was supposed to be KnuckLehead deja vu all over again, only things didn't work out that way!

[Robert Luland]

“O” Bull! You can’t even mix British bikes of the 60’s into the equation. First off your talking about a socialist society. Although in the sixties 90% of all parts were interchangeable between brands as I’m not sure about the fifties, but it can’t be far off. Real is real. For the guy that breaks his ass to make it right down to the lock washers, deserves that trophy no matter what it’s made of. I’m so damm tired of seeing V-twin copy crap. And it’s not like the stuff doesn’t stick out. Any competent judge should see through it. Either you’re going to go the distance or don’t bother. The article to say the least was shallow. I have a 65XLCH fully restored down to the lock washer. Just my two cents, Bob

[D.Mac]

Well...
I have '53 Triumph and not much interchanges off other Brit bikes, except rims, some electrics, and a few other parts that were outsourced by the factory. When I restored it I had the same problems as restoring American bikes, every part I needed is out there NOS, and as much as I would like to go that way, I'm just a working stiff. But I still like old bikes, what to do? Search for bargains where possible, use re-pop if it is decent. By the way the re-pop situation for Brit bikes is the same as for American, much of it is worthless crap, some can be re-worked and made useable, some is very good. As for the v-twin re-pop stuff, I don't know why they bother to make some of it, much less why people buy it, some of it is just garbage. I'd like to restore my panhead, and I have bought a few nice repop parts, but I've gotten used to it's well-worn look, and I'll just ride it as is while looking for bargain original pieces, and decent re-pop stuff. I guess as long as people continue to buy crappy re-pop it will continue to be made. What I don't get is what guys do with some of this stuff- I've bought repop for both Brit and American machines, that not only looked like crap, but just plain would'nt work, some I re-worked out of desperation, some I shipped back. My $.02, Doug.

[Robert Luland]

D. Mac I'm not saying that ya can't go to thewell of repop when ya got no chiose but what I am stating is that at least give it your best shot at getting the orignal. I see some of these bike are more than 50% fake. There is no reason for this on lets a a 60 pan. It's just lazyness. The repop crap cost more than the orignals most of the time. E-Bay changed the restorer's market. It's easier than ever to get the real thing. GEEER!

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Robert Luland
“O” Bull! You can’t even mix British bikes of the 60’s into the equation. First off your talking about a socialist society. Although in the sixties 90% of all parts were interchangeable between brands as I’m not sure about the fifties, but it can’t be far off. Real is real. For the guy that breaks his ass to make it right down to the lock washers, deserves that trophy no matter what it’s made of. I’m so damm tired of seeing V-twin copy crap. And it’s not like the stuff doesn’t stick out. Any competent judge should see through it. Either you’re going to go the distance or don’t bother. The article to say the least was shallow. I have a 65XLCH fully restored down to the lock washer. Just my two cents, Bob

If good parts interchangeability means a socialist society then what does that make old time Harley-Davidson? The same parts sometimes carried over several decades. How un-American! But Milwaukee did have a socialist mayor at one time so you could be right.

True. Real is real. But I disagree that it always sticks out and as time goes on it will stick out less and less and fewer will know the difference. That's the way it's going down.

The guy who accurately replicates a historical motorcycle from scratch in part or whole is worthy of a trophy just as the guy who tracks down the correct lock washer, and why not?

The Sportster's history goes a lot deeper than we ever knew. Who understood that the XL and its K model predecessor were accidental bikes that weren't suppose to exist in the first place? Now it makes sense why the Sportster kept its experimental "X" designation once in production. An inside joke maybe? Almost like they they thought so much of their KL motor that they put its model name into the grave with it.

The late 1940s thru 1960s period when the 2nd generation Harleys and Davidsons ruled the roost at Juneau Avenue and their accidental Sportster became America's macho machine is a world onto itself and quite an unusual tale. Sorry if I called your XLCH a freak. I'll bet it's fine example of the type. Any photos?

[HarleyCreation]

Here's another quaint theory why Harley introduced the new flathead Model K so late in the game (1952).

This one goes that Milwaukee saw that Indian was sick and ailing and hoping to lure new buyers over who were familiar with side-valve engines and would only accept that type came out with the side-valve K model.

IOW, Model K was supposed to give disgruntled Indian riders somewhere to go with what might be called a modernized Scout as envisioned by Milwaukee.

There doesn't appear to be any direct evidence for this theory that I know of, but you wonder if that didn't cross their minds in Milwaukee if just a wee bit.

The story of Model KL to K to XL is so unusual that I'm starting to think that the K/KH lines are underestimated collector bikes due to their unusual origin and their strange combination of ultra-modern and obsolete features. Plus they didn't make very many. If I had the bucks I'd snap one up.

[pem]

My brother and me had a K model sportster back in 1968. Second gear was out of it and all the Harley dealers said it wasn't worth it to fix it. To much work to split the cases. I thought that was unusual for a dealer to turn work away. Anyway I remember one day riding the sportster up to the gas pump at the gas station in town that was the hangout for all the cool guys and their cars and bikes. Pulled up to the pump, put my foot down, caught my pant leg on the foot peg and promptly fell over. Quite impressive!
Now I really with I had that bike. I remember it as being quite pleasant to ride.