New Antiques

[schmittm]

Put my vote in the "it won't hurt anything" column.

The authenticity experts will always know the difference anyway.

I'm one of those guys that always wondered what it was like to ride a single cylinder, belt drive, strap tank, pedal start, pre-teen Harley. Who is going to let you ride their authentic original?

If clones become available and reasonably priced, I'm in!

BTW Kojack, I never could afford a Whizzer when I was going to school, I had to settle for a Travis Moto-Wheel, but that's another story.

mike

[LouieMCman]

Or, build your own! What surprised me was when a guy with a lot of real old single belt drives rode my homebuilt, he said "it feels like a Harley single belt drive". This really surprised me because I thought it felt like a briggs and stratten. But I guess the pulsing of the motor feels the same. I'm for the repops as long as they are labeled as such.

[LouieMCman]

Or...next project, based on a 1910 Pierce...I call it the "Peace", 1946 Wisconsin motor / torque converter....I'm still mocking it up so don't laugh yet.....

[Jerry Hatfield]

Well, it's one thing to repop "general" old bikes, but another to repop an actual historical motorcycle down to the fake numbers. At one time a man was in the process of building a replica of the "Bathing Suit Bike", the Vincent H.R.D. ridden by Rollie Free at Bonneveille to a 1948 American record of 150.313. Why on earth would anybody want to produce a replica of a famous motorcycle that is still being shown here and there? The real Bathing Suit Bike comes with a ton of documentation, including the pink slip, the California DMV audit trail of a sucession of owners, and dozens of photos obtainable only from the descendants of John Edgar, original owner of the Bathing Suit Bike. The DMV audit trail and various letters between John Edgar and a "borrower" of the bike, prove that the bike was sold by the so-called "borrower" -- a thief, in other words. So the pink slip is signed by Will Edgar, John's son, and the real Bathing Suit Bike provenance is thus irrefutable. A full-fledged title was obtained by John Edgar because the had the bike converted for street use. However, there are other notable racing motorcycles which were never titled, and so are ripe targets for counterfeiters.

[elt]

Hey Schmittm
I started with a Travis on the front wheel at 10 years old.And have a nice old 62 lark driver now.Louie am with you on the build your owne.I trashed the Travis quickly but was not about to go back to pedeling so installed a Y Briggs washmachine engine.By the time I was 12 I had put one togeather with a NP Briggs kickstart Dodlebug engine with Whizzer tank,pulley,& Messenger saddle.That one got me a job in the local machineshop as a helper and still wasnt 13 yet.Can ya think of a better way to keep a kid off the streat?Back to the Harley miodel one clone.A couple of years ago I started researching the project.I talked with the guy who had the repop at Harleys so called centenial.His has a totally fabricated engine.Like no castings at all the cylinder is a tube with 16 gauge fins brazed on.It looks nice and runs good.I purchased the Onex socalled 1903 1/6th scale model.Have ben told that they are very close scale .Didnt take much work to take the digetial caliper and calculator to make drawings.When this batch of repops started showing up I parked the project.The way I got figured someone will make some crankcase and cylinder castings available.If and when guys let me know.Untill then its back to building the v8/60 BMW drivetraine 73 FLH frame bike.
Louie am with you the Briggs will not sound like a 440cc low compression autmospheric valve engine.After reading Herbs(at the creation) book I can almost hear it run.
Elton

[Kojack]

I never had a Whizzer either. Minibikes were the "in" thing when I was younger. My dad had seen a bunch of his buddies get hurt on motorcycles while he was stationed in Italy during WWII and was dead set against anything with two wheels and a motor so I was limited to bicycles. Hmmm, maybe that deprivation is why I'm into this stuff now.
Louie, those are great projects. Definately a fun alternative, and fun is what it's all about, but wouldn't that Briggs motor be a little too reliable for an authentic feel? Those things never quit. I want to see that "Peace" project when it's finished.
Jerry, I remember reading something about the circumstances surrounding the "Bathing Suit Bike". Did John Edgar or his family evey try to reclaim it?

[elt]

Hey Kojack
If ya check out page 66 of at the creation.Harley factory records show a picture from negative #599 the Meyer-Separo bike.Which should be the 1904 prototype.Well they tracked that darn thing for over 100,000 miles with no major parts change.Now that sounds like it should be as good as a Briggs.I think that Bruce Linsday will probly say that his 1905 is darn reliable also.However I tkink that one has got to be a repop.If it aint will sure take my hat off to the fact that he rides it.Guess I was lucky my dad rode a 41EL to work during the war and usally had a yard full of guys drop by to get him to tune their carbs.The high speed jet being set on the highway.He did tell me when you stoped being afraide of the bike you would get hurt.But he flat out wouldnt let me have a model T.He said the plate glass windows two wheel brakes and quick loose stearing was just not safe.
Elton

[schmittm]

Reliability? All the threads that deal with oil somehow lead to the fact that the total loss engines lasted forever because they always had fresh clean oil at the critical points. The engine would outlive the chassis.

Elton, I just notice where you were from. I have a cousin that lives on Anacortes, if you ever run across a guy named Rupert P. Schmitt say hi for me, haven't seen him in years. He is originally from Milwaukee too (Wauwatosa actually). He's an interesting guy, ask him about his trip to Central America in the VW bus back in the '60's.

Back to the thread, I think I ran across the "scratch built" guy at the Milwaukee Rally last July. He had them at the centenial too but he also had them set up at the Wisconsin State Fair Grounds in West Allis in July '06. He had 2 machines there and I spent as much time as the wife would allow inspecting them. I was trying to explain the atmospheric (vacuum) intake valves to my brother and the builder must have sensed that he had a sincerely interested viewer so he started it up for us. It ran as good as it looked, I didn't have the nerve to ask him for a test drive.

Like I said earlier, I have nothing but respect for someone that can reproduce a faithful example of something that the world hasn't seen in 100 years. It can only inspire interest and keep our hobby alive, as long as they don't try to pass them off as originals.

Elt, my Travis never acted right either, it wouldn't hold a head gasket. I think those were Power Products 2-strokes, another fine Wisconsin small engine like Briggs, Tecumsah, Lawson, Kohler, and, of course, Wisconsin Air Cooled. I always wondered why all the small engines came out of Wisconsin.

just rambling.....

mike

[elt]

Hi Mike
Just tried your cousins listed number and got a nolonger in service recording.As far as the Travis it was a Powerproducts and ran great till I loved it to death.Being a ten year old mechanics kid I just had to work on it.Well I had the cylinder off just to see what was inside.After that it started to get harder to start untill it just wouldnt.Then I pulled the cylinder to find that I had lost one of the piston pin end aluminum plugs and had a bad scored cylinder.The name of the guy with the scratch built bikes is Rick Eggers.The last time I talked to him he hadnt finished the twin 1908.
Elton

[AdminGuy]

Git ready BOYS! The OHV Excelsior is going to be started up this Sunday! I'm getting super excited! It's going to be a hoot! I'll get some stills and video for you all. Asap of this fantastic historical recreation. or fake.....

[c.o.]

Paul, let the naysayers call it what they like.....it's still a work of art!!!!! It does seem though that most people accept the newer replicas of old stuff as long as they're stated as such. I'm looking forward to the video.......