harley's first O.H.V.

[Early Iron MC]

Barry, That is great news as it kind of backs up my idea that Excelsior never built an 8 valve motor, I've looked through a lot of racing highlights from back then. and the 8 valve Indians and 8 valve Harleys are allways brought up but never an 8 valve Excelsior. Looking at racing news from back as early as 1911 they talk about ported Excelsiors winning races and beating 8 valve Indians. And in 1915 the big valve X was brought out with 2 1/8 valves and better flowing ports.
, and these motors could still run with and beat the 8 valve Indians and Harleys until about 1918, and it looks like Indian was moving away from the 8 valve motor as they were running the new powerplus more and more on the tracks. I think that John McNeil joined Excelsior in 1915 so the first Excelsior OHV may have been built in late 1915 or early 1916, and I tend to think that since he worked with Andrew Strand on the Cyclone OHV - OHC he would faver large valve and free breathing ports, I just don't think they got it to work with the push rod configuration as the first OHV version was slower than the big valve X. and thats when they went back and redesigned it as a OHV - OHC motor, just think if Bob Perry wouldn't have been killed testing that version where Excelsior would have gone.

[Pete Gagan]

You are right, Mark, things could have been different. The repro OHC Excelsior which is as accurately reproduced as possible puts out approx. 60 BHP on the dyno, slightly more than a Vincent Black Shadow. Valve timing and porting is probably better than the originals, but it runs on pump gas, while the originals were tuned for methanol, so the end result was probably much the same- and the whole thing weighs 240 lbs against the Vincent's 450. Quite a thing it must have been in 1920!
Pete Gagan

[HarleyCreation]

It always seemed to me that engine development and horsepower greatly outpaced the technology of the rest of the bike before WWI. A blind race for greater and greater speed without too much thought of anything else. Quite a mania it was.

Has the story about Bob Perry's death and Schwinn scrapping the OHC racers actually ever been fully documented? I know that I have read about it on several occasions, but can't remember what the actual evidence was. Certainly a good -- if tragic -- story. But then so many of those early guys died on the track.

[Pete Gagan]

Hi Herb:
I rather suspect that the story of Schwinn ordering the scrapping of the OHC bikes, particularly the tale of him smashing them with a sledge hammer and burying them trackside was from the imagination of a creative period journalist.
There is a tale of one being spotted at the factory in the late twenties, but in spite of the vast amount of press we've had over the repro, no single nut or bolt seems to have survived from the originals, or we'd probably have heard about it by now.
Pete

[Early Iron MC]

Pete, You and Paul did a great job building the OHC Excelsior that bike is unbeliveable in detail, do you know for sure how many of the originals were built? I have an Idea, but I'll wait to through it out here. I grew up in Chicago so I have a love of all things Excelsior and Schwinn, so much so that evan my wife and I ride Excelsior and Henderson bicycles.

[Early Iron MC]

Herb, There are so many stories that can be told about the old board track and dirt track racing days. You should check into it.

[Pete Gagan]

Hi Mark:
I'm afraid I have no count on the bikes, but probably no more than a half dozen or less. Looking at the photos, it looks like they could all be of Perry's and Joe Walter's bikes, but who knows?
I'd be interested in knowing if you have the answer!
Pete