An honest question about new bikes on national road runs - what do you think?

[droptopford]

As has been stated in other threads; what it seems the AMCA needs is a chapter devoted to truly "veteran" motorcycles of the pre-1953 period.

Just wondering about the reason for the seemingly random cut-off date at pre-1953.?. Can't be the tank-shift thing as foot-shift became officially available in '52. Why wouldn't that chapter be either pre-1952 or pre-1958 and just include any rigid Pan?

I guess my real question is... what features make a '52 Panhead more suitable as an 'antique' than a '57 (besides actual age)? And why are they trying to exclude me and my '57 dammit?!?

Edit: Sorry... I know my last two posts have strayed from the '65 rule subject.

[tfburke3]

In believe 1953 suggested cutoff was due to it being Indians last year.
I rember when some members, way back when, wanted a pre ww2 cut off so the meets wouldnt be overwelmed with "modern"bikes like skirted chiefs and panheads.
Tom

[Skirted]

All it took to have the 65 year rule put in place was to have a member[s] complain to someone at the National level about how hard it was to ride an old bike on a Road Run. The national has an aversion to offending members for any reason and has for a long time.

The 65 year rule should be raised to 75 years at least, if not done away with entirely, as it offends more members than it accomodates.
vph-d

I have been pondering what the reason was for doing this. How the conversation went to arrive at 65? Why the subject even materialized and was put on the table at a meeting? I can only think the goal was getting more people to come to National Road Runs. This is one time I hope I am wrong. Someone tell me I'm wrong.
More people riding modern bikes will only serve to water down the whole experience for the majority. Gain some on the modern end, lose some on the bottom end. More is not always better. Maintaining the feel and experience of a nostaligic, authentic event should be priority.
Maybe we need different NRRs for old bikes and new bikes.

[chuckthebeatertruck]

I can only think the goal was getting more people to come to National Road Runs. This is one time I hope I am wrong. Someone tell me I'm wrong.

Unless someone is fibbing; we have ZERO issue with getting people to road runs -- and in recent years, road runs often have ample waiting lists. Several road runs have exceeded 200 riders and needed more than one hotel to hold the whole group! Basically, when AMCA releases the sign up date, you have about 24-48 hours to get booked in or you're likely to be on the waiting list - same thing with hotel rooms. So, you have to do a LOT of preplanning . . .and this tells you there's a strong contingent of people doing just that.

That's why I keep bringing this subject up -- we don't have an issue selling out road runs and we likely could add one or two extra runs IF we had the chapter structure and volunteers to do so.

I suspect this 65 and older rule got put in for the reasons others are stating -- no one wanted to tell a long time member or members they were stretching things; so suddenly a rule popped up.

For my part, I should see two national directors on Saturday afternoon at the Badger autumn meeting. I plan to ask at least one of them to examine this rule.

I strongly doubt anything will happen - but at least I'll feel better after saying something and can point to this thread as a bit of evidence it touches a nerve.

As of me hitting post -- this thread has been seen a couple of thousand times. Normally our parking lot chatter rarely gets above the low 100s in views . . .

[chuckthebeatertruck]

Just wondering about the reason for the seemingly random cut-off date at pre-1953.?. Can't be the tank-shift thing as foot-shift became officially available in '52. Why wouldn't that chapter be either pre-1952 or pre-1958 and just include any rigid Pan?

I guess my real question is... what features make a '52 Panhead more suitable as an 'antique' than a '57 (besides actual age)? And why are they trying to exclude me and my '57 dammit?!?

Edit: Sorry... I know my last two posts have strayed from the '65 rule subject.

All of these are totally subjective things, Droptop.

Indeed, there is no real reason for these "cut offs" beyond our personal preferences in motorbikes.

[Architect]

I suggested on a previous discussion that the Road Run riding groups be setup by classes and have differing departure times to allow class 2, 3 and 4 bikes more time as they would be traveling slower. Plus this tries to keep bikes with similar capabilities together. No one wants to ride a pre-war bike near an 80's Goldwing, for a lot of reasons. Classes could be year, transmission, CC's or whatever makes sense to keep 45 MPH bikes with 45 MPH bikes, and 65 MPH bikes away form them. Good luck.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Chuck, here's another slightly off topic comment. I was with the VMCC at a recent Heritage Sprint Weekend with a 1/8 mile timed strip. About ten VMCC members brought machines for a Ride an Old Bike Event (ROBE). We had four half hour sessions a day where anyone with a motorcycle license and a helmet could pay 5 pounds and ride any bike they liked down a one mile fire lane and back. I had brought the 1914 Douglas, surely one of the most challenging to operate, and it got through two tankfuls of gas over the weekend and covered nearly 50 miles. We signed up two new Club members at the Meet. Imagine at Oley, say, if those many visitors on modern motorcycles could pay $10 and ride a handshift bike round the block. These are our future AMCA members.

[KNUCK]

I'd like to give some historical perspective here, then a reference to to the current AMCA road run rules and my personal rant.

The Rocky Mtn Chapter started the road runs in 1984, with a strong edict from the national as to how things would be. One big rule was, only motorcycles manufactured in 1953 or earlier were allowed to be ridden. At that time, 1953 and older was the AMCA definition of an antique, and only bikes and parts from that era could be sold, traded or judged at national meets. That first road run had something like 36 machines registered, a nice start. The 1953 and older rule was never in question. There were bikes from the mid teens and up, with many in the 20's and 30's. And SURPRISE, they all made it, except for Bob McCleans bike which was covered with a tarp but parked on top of a sprinkler that ran all night! The road run was a great success, so the chapter decided to host again in 1985. We made changes to the format and route, but it was still very much a pre 1953 road run. The day before the ride was to start, I was at the registration table with other club officers, Ed Gerlits and Charles Lamoreaux. Our new friend Ben Chesney shyly approached the table, literally with his hat in his hand and head bowed. He explained that in the process of loading his 1930 (?) Henderson on the trailer to head west, the crankshaft broke. He did not have another bike that would qualify, all being too new. So, he humbly asked if we would allow him to ride a 1954 Nimbus on the ride. He would gladly ride in the rear, or head back home if we said no. Ed Gerlits asked Ben how old he was. I don't remember Ben's exact age, but he was in his upper 80's at that time. A brief discussion ensued and we unanimously agreed that "If you're over 85, you can ride whatever you want, if you're an AMCA member". That rule became the standard for many years and was included in the first official AMCA road run guidelines, which I helped draft. I recall in later years, Rich Schultz, and others, exercised that rule and rode more modern bikes, which allowed them to continue riding well past 85. However, many others still rode much older bikes well into their 80's and 90's. Over the years, somehow that rule slowly morphed into what is now written in the AMCA rules for road runs. That rule reads as follows, a direct cut and paste from the AMCA bylaws:

"V. PROCESS DESCRIPTION A.

National Road Run (NRR) is a gathering of members of the Antique Motorcycle Club of America (AMCA) in scenic areas of their country for the sole purpose of riding and enjoying antique motorcycles together. Although NRRs follow the clubâ??s 35-year rule (i.e. registered motorcycles should be more than 35 years old), members 65 years of age or older may ride any year of motorcycle. ALL REGISTRANTS OF A NATIONAL ROAD RUN MUST BE A CURRENT AMCA MEMBER"

Now, let that sink in...... If you're over 65, you can ride whatever you want, hell bring that new 2026 Milwaukee 8, you'll fit right in! As I recall, the AVERAGE age of the AMCA membership is now 63 or 64. So, in essence, we are no longer an antique motorcycle club, we are barely even a vintage club! Hell, just show up and ride whatever you want, gosh, you're over 65 you poor old sot.....Yes, I'm very much opposed to the over 65 rule. I can live with the over 85 rule, but 65, really!!!!????? So that is one justification for all the new bikes, and I hate it!!! I was on the Black Hills road run. I rode with Alex B and others, all on pre war machines. In fact, 2 days I rode 1924 vintage bikes and a 1937 on the 3rd day. I recall a few modern machines jumping into the middle of our group, because they had no clue where to go. Guess they hadn't yet read the operators manual on their new Harley explaining how to use the GPS system. More than once, they were causing problems for us on the tight looping turns on the Needles Hwy. The 900 + lb baggers they were riding, in addition to a lower skill level, caused them to crawl through some of that terrain, which split us up and made things difficult for us at times. Yes, we managed to survive, but I specifically recall thinking to myself what a travesty this was on an "Antique Motorcycle Road Run". Some of those guys didn't even look like they were even 65! So in essence, according to the AMCA, if you're over 65, ride anything, and everybody else can ride 1991 and older bikes. "YAY, I'm on an antique motorcycle!"

As mentioned earlier, there are plenty of clubs for the 80's, 90's and newer bikes, so go ride with them.

For me, I guess I'll just go down as a grumpy old fart riding OLD motorcycles! And yes, I'm 65 but no, I won't be riding my 2013 Road Glide on a road run, ever!

The more I think about this 65 age or older rule the more I think it is out of touch. I see many 65 year old out for a ride fairly often now days, as the ease and comfort of new motorcycles make this much easier than any kick start or tank shift. Really 65 is the new 55 in life now days. So actually 75 would seem to be a year that one would feel is likely a time of difficulty to get out and participate like they did years ago. We should give these riders that break in life. It would also cut down on the abuse of this privilege. Also I would either have them at the front or the rear in a group so as not to taint the meaning of the run as much.